switching a versatile weapon between 1h and 2h, what action?

[bjorn2bwild]

Well the title pretty much says it all.

If I have a character holding a versatile weapon, say a longsword, in one hand and want to switch to holding it in two hands, what type of action is required?

Likewise, if I'm holding a versatile weapon in two hands and want to switch to holding it in one hand, what type of action is required?

I can't seem to find anything specific in the PHB with regards to versatile weapons, although I suspect it's a free action to go from 2h to 1h as that would essentially fall under the category of dropping a weapon.



The end result of all of this is I'm trying to determine the net worth of a swordmage carrying a versatile weapon in one hand and nothing in the other.

Is it possible to trade off between holding it in two hands for attacking and holding it in one hand the rest of the time (and still have that all important minor action available for assigning the aegis).

Likewise, if you're an assault swordmage and you're holding your sword in one hand, would you be able to get both hands on the blade for your aegis basic attack?

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

We've been playing that switching from 1H to 2H is a free action. I think it's fine if a Swordmage does this - for 1 extra damage they risk any interrupts that the enemy might have and being vulnerable in their defenses against those attacks.

Incidentally, we've also been playing that if you're holding two things, swapping hands is a minor action (this comes up a lot when you have a light shield and carry a second weapon in the hand, but can't use it).

 

[deleteme123456]

I smell a lot of cheese if you let the SM attack 2-handed and then immediately go 1-H for a free action. I would rule that your hand is "occupied" if you used it to attack since the start of your last turn. Solvable by requiring minor to switch grips, now you have the tradeoff between damage and marking.

 

[inati]

Mechanically it should be a free action to switch grips, or switch from onehanded to two handed. Take a real world example of tennis players that switch between a one handed and two handed grip, and how it is done seemlessly and without any thought, and it would be hard to argue that switch grips is anything but a free action.

Now throw in the Swordmage class feature of either one handed or two handed bonusesm which is your REAL question. For this, I would say that if you use a two handed attack during a round and then swap as a free action to one handed, I would rule that your one handed defense bonus doesn't kick in until the start of your next turn.

This way, the mechanics of swapping hands doesn't effect everyone across the board, but the swordmage class is prevented from the cheese that people are afraid would happen.

 

[keterys]

I think I'd be tempted to go with a minor action, mirroring the usual rules for readying a weapon.

 

[Solodan]

Best I can come up with:

2H to 1H is free action - as you're "Dropping a weapon" with one hand, which is a free action.

1H to 2H is a minor action - No real reason other than I don't want 1-h to 2-h shenanigans - there is nothing in the rules which is close to this that I can tell. Maybe readying a weapon.

 

[Skyscraper]

I'd say that 2H-1H and 1H-2H is a free action. If anything doesn't require any time, that is it. Even speaking during combat takes more time. Good for your swordmage.

Sky

 

[Starbuck_II]

Best I can come up with:

2H to 1H is free action - as you're "Dropping a weapon" with one hand, which is a free action.

1H to 2H is a minor action - No real reason other than I don't want 1-h to 2-h shenanigans - there is nothing in the rules which is close to this that I can tell. Maybe readying a weapon.

The only thing coming close to this in the books is mage hand switches stuff for a minor action.

 

[keterys]

Even speaking during combat takes more time. Good for your swordmage.

1) It doesn't matter if speaking takes more time, but how much of your ability to do other actions it takes
2) This entire discussion shouldn't have anything to do with the swordmage. The rule is clearly intended for swordmages to leave a hand free while fighting, and this is an intentional attempt to circumvent that rule. Just say no and move along. This isn't a competitive tournament game where every advantage must be secured.

 

[inati]

2) This entire discussion shouldn't have anything to do with the swordmage. The rule is clearly intended for swordmages to leave a hand free while fighting, and this is an intentional attempt to circumvent that rule. Just say no and move along. This isn't a competitive tournament game where every advantage must be secured.

I disagree with this, as this issue can, will, and already has come up in RPGA tournament play. Heck, my Living Forgotten Realms character is a swordmage, so I would love to hear discussions about rules from other people.

In fact, I am surprised there are people who will try and shut down conversations on this board by saying things like 'this is obviously cheese, so stop.'

Isn't the whole point of threads like this to prevent cheese by coming up with a fair and reasonable ruling made through spirited discussions?

In any case, when a swordmage is using a versatile weapon, there must be a way, mechanically, to make sure that he does not attack two handed, and then switch to one handed at the end of his turn in order to benefit from his Swordmage Warding class feature for +3 instead of only +1. I do not feel that the Warding feature was meant to be used in such a manner, and I feel it was a poor decision on the designers part for not addressing this glaring hole in the rules before it went to print.

Unfortunately, the rules don't address this (yet).

A solution, other than the one I gave earlier, would be that the Swordmage must declare at the beginning of their turn if they are using their versatile weapon one handed or two handed, and consequently their Warding will grant them the corresponding bonus until the beginning of their next turn, where they can choose to switch grips or keep it the same.

I feel that this eliminates the "is it a free action or not" issue, keeps the spirit of the warding feature intact, and still gives players of swordmages with versatile weapons the ability to choose which grip they want to use.