"Switching"

[Desdichado]

Well look at it this way, EnWorld is like the human body; each user comprosing a blood cell; each moderator a major organ and all administrators like the brain. If all are functioning harminously, no problems.

When the Dungeon/Dragon and 4E debacle were at their height, EnWorlds immune system had to weed out the bad 'germs'.

Why should I look at it that way? That analogy doesn't encapsulate my experience here at all. We're a community, not an organism. Community health is ensured by an influx of 'new blood' periodically, and by maintaining the 'old guard' so they don't go away.

Controversial, interesting things going on in the community is a lot more healthy than a rather bland "Be excellent to each other, and party on, dude!" status quo. I bet if you looked at usage statistics, postcounts, new member registrations, old 'prodigal sons' returning and stuff like that, you'd see that this community has been healthier since GenCon 2007 and the 4e announcement than it had been in years before.

So ina awy, it is all about respect. Respect every one else's opinions, while maintaining your own, and EnWorld's body should last a good long time.

That's nice, but that's not what this post has been about. Buzz is saying specifically to not get excited or passionate about this kinda stuff because "it's just a game." I'm saying that's exactly the kind of attitude that causes folks to wander off, quit posting, quit playing and drop out of the hobby altogether.

Honestly, there is no requirement that you have to. And I don't even know if there is a "community" per se, especially if we embrace the idea that RPGing is a pastime, not a lifestyle. There is certainly a subculture, though.

Yeah, sure, and of course respect and civility as always preferable to the alternative. I'm just nitpicking that one concept and idea out of your post, not trying to argue against the whole shebang. I'm simply saying that I don't see a whole lot of value in some kind of Kumbaya gamer brotherhood---I actually like being able to winnow out who's on the same page as me more easily so I can 1) pay more particular attention to their feedback when I have a gamer question, and 2) look for games from them when it comes to things like a gameday or GenCon event.

And I see the passion and divisiveness not as a problem, but rather a sign that there's still vitality left in the hobby.

* And if you did care, you'd come to more Chicago Gamedays!

I know! Actually, Quickbeam and I have talked about possibly coming up again sometime soon. Now that our grueling, will-sapping Age of Worms campaign has finally been fully endured to its conclusion, we're actually all feeling a bit revitalized about gaming in general again.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Great post, buzz. I agree a 100 % with you.

 

[Rechan]

]Honestly, I think the best analogy is the platform wars among video gamers.

There's another shade to it: PC vs Console gamers. And beyond that, PC vs Mac user computer wars.

 

[TerraDave]

What! If I am not defined by one single game, then who am I?

 

[Belen]

I agree with Hobo. Passion for the game is one of the items that will bring you to a place such as ENWorld. If anything, people should look to civil discourse and debate on the topic rather than an attitude that it is "just a game."

I said it on CM, but D&D has been a huge part of my life for the last decade, although I have played longer. Almost all of my current friends are derived from this hobby, so changes to a "game" and how I feel about that game can have a huge and real impact.

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah, when D&D becomes "just a game" to me, I'll probably quit playing.

Granted, I don't define myself or my lifestyle around gaming, but it is one of the (few) activities to which I devote my increasingly limited hobby time. So it's somewhere between those two extremes for me; it's something that I spend quite a bit of time, energy (and money) on.

 

[DaveMage]

Some of the angst, though, may simply be sadness/disappointment that certain products will no longer be made.

One of the biggest disappointments for me is that Goodman Games will no longer be remaking the 1E Judges Guild adventures for 3.5 (and I don't see anyone else doing it either), so there are certain real reasons for wanting certain companies to choose a particular version of the game.

 

[buzz]

Buzz is saying specifically to not get excited or passionate about this kinda stuff because "it's just a game."

Woah!

It was not my intention to say that people should not be passionate or excited about anything. I love it when people are passionate and excited about playing RPGs! Heck, I'm passionate and excited about RPGs!

I'm talking about letting an RPG define who you are. There are copious examples, in all gaming fora, of people obviously taking a criticism of their game of choice as being a criticism of them as a person. Or gnashing their teeth in anguish at the thought of playing the D&D where you roll d% to climb a wall as opposed to rolling a d20. And, while I understand that people get passionate about their RPGs (as I know I do), there's a point at which it's just no longer conducive to being a healthy person, much less to civil discourse.

So, yeah, I think it's important to remember that, yes, we are just talking about games here. Games we love, games we spend hours and hours with, games we associate with important moments, but games nonetheless.

 

[DragonBelow]

Now, in that Paizo thread, someone put forth the idea that this edition divisiveness is WotC's fault. I don't really buy that. WotC produces new editions of the game, ideally aimed at improving it or making it more appealing, that same way that auto companies produce new cars, or software companies sell upgrades. Again, this is just how life works. WotC does it, TSR did it, WW does it, GR does it, etc, etc.

I agree with many of the things you say, however WotC does have a role to play in this division issue, allow me to explain, I've seen this happen before in the Open Source Software World.

3.X was basically guaranteed to exist one way or another, much like older editions of the game are still played today. Howeever, if 4e used the OGL, it's very likely that every publisher that currently supports 3.X would probably be supporting 4e as well, but since it doesn't (and that''s WotC's call), 3.X was guaranteed to be picked up by somebody, that it was Paizo was a (very nice) surprise to me. Also, that the GSL and the rules aren't yet available to 3rd parties does not help.

3.X is still a fun game and if it's supported by somebody of Paizo's relevance is very significant for those of us that for whatever reason don't want to switch systems.

 

[buzz]

Tabletop games aren't just a game. It's time spent with your friends. It's an investment of creativity, time, and effort. No one has spent ten, fifteen, twenty years playing Monopoly with their friends every weekend. No one really remembers a good game of Uno or Clue ten years later, but a good campaign? A good adventure? A good climactic fight? Your favorite character? Your first character death?

I dunno. My wife is a Spades nut, and she can easily recount tales of some of her favorite matches back in college. She'll also get all agitated when she finds people who only want to play Euchre, which she sees as inferior to Spades.

Is it irrational? Hell yes. But is it childish and wrong? No.

For the record, I never used the word "childish."