Swordmage Question

[AbdulAlhazred]

It's not that hard.

Regular marks are for off-targets. You just care about the -2, which is the DM's problem once applied.

Your Aegis is for the main target, the one you are intended to keep locked down, and that being a single target should be easy to remember, as you're only hitting one with it.

This power is its own thing, yes... but its not like you have a huge assortment of marking powers. You know you've used it, chances are you won't be using the Aegis in its situation, so it's not hard to remember.

Just don't over think it. As a player, you need to track your Aegis, and this one power when you use it. The other mark is fire and forget. Just use a different token to track the Aegis and you'll be good. No different than a paladin's single target focus.

Yes, and that is the whole problem. As a swordmage, assuming I take this power, I have THREE different kinds of 'marks', the standard mark which several SM powers allow you to place (and in any case many SMs will get this sort of thing from other places), the aegis which is also a mark, and this nuther utter nutter butter kind of mark.

I'm not 'overthinking' anything. It is hell at the table. You can make light of it, but this kind of thing is a dumb design decision by WotC. It is confusing to most ordinary players, deeply confusing. It just further multiplies the plethora of slightly different fiddly condition tracking that has to be done, etc. YOU may find it perfectly clear, most players DO NOT.

I mean the very existence of threads like this one should be telling you something. The people who play in any of the games I've run aren't RPG neophytes, but neither are they hard core 4e experts. Certainly they can understand when I explain these things to them, and then 2 or 3 weeks later when they have to deal with it again it has to be explained again, etc etc etc. It has driven a certain distinct distaste for 4e and given it a rep as a fiddly game that is aimed at expert players, not one you break out for any old group and play some D&D. That's bad.

 

[Nullzone]

There's nothing inherently foreign about this mark. Swordmages have 1/2/3 targets to aegis per tier, and then they have a smattering of other powers that mark for exactly one turn (or they apply Aegis if you're specced into a specific type, in which case it's just your usual aegis effect, no big deal).

Occasionally, those powers apply a unique effect as well, such as with Sword of Sigils. It lasts exactly one round of combat and then it's gone. Not hard to track, and there's not really anything else to cause confusion with. Swordmages can't mark at will like a Fighter can, so there's really no issue here with mark management.

The only time I could see confusion is if you use Aegis and then immediately follow with Sword of Sigils on the same target, but if you do that you're not playing to the strengths of Swordmage in my opinion And you can elect to not mark with SoS anyway to keep the Aegis up.

 

[DracoSuave]

Yes, and that is the whole problem. As a swordmage, assuming I take this power, I have THREE different kinds of 'marks', the standard mark which several SM powers allow you to place (and in any case many SMs will get this sort of thing from other places), the aegis which is also a mark, and this nuther utter nutter butter kind of mark.

In the Arcane Power book there are four or five encounter powers that mark throughout all tiers. Sigil of Swords is one, and all the rest apply the Aegis if you match the build.

In the FRPG there's zero.

That means, in practice, there are two kinds of marks. Your Aegis, and Sigil of Swords.

If Sigil of Swords is confusing to a player, it's really easy to solve. Take a different power. Then you only have one kind of mark to worry about, in practice, so long as you don't take the existing marking powers meant for other builds.

Which, by the way, is really easy for Aegis of Shielding because only one such power belongs to Ensnarement.

If there is complexity, it's completely self-imposed. The answer to the problem is easy: Don't take the complicated stuff.

 

[Herschel]

You know, I've never took Sword of Sigils. I never actually thought if I was surrounded they'd attack someone else. That's the time I'm hoping my AC/hit points hold up against combat advantage. Were I playing a Gnome or Voidsoul on the other hand, that could be a tasty power.

 

[SolidSnake_01]

In the Arcane Power book there are four or five encounter powers that mark throughout all tiers. Sigil of Swords is one, and all the rest apply the Aegis if you match the build.

In the FRPG there's zero.

That means, in practice, there are two kinds of marks. Your Aegis, and Sigil of Swords.

If Sigil of Swords is confusing to a player, it's really easy to solve. Take a different power. Then you only have one kind of mark to worry about, in practice, so long as you don't take the existing marking powers meant for other builds.

Which, by the way, is really easy for Aegis of Shielding because only one such power belongs to Ensnarement.

If there is complexity, it's completely self-imposed. The answer to the problem is easy: Don't take the complicated stuff.

Thanks guys! I appreciate the in-depth analysis!