swordmage: the gish we've been waiting for?

[Obryn]

The main difference is that the Swordmage can mark only one person, and needs to use an action to do so.

Once they mark an enemy, there's nothing keeping the enemy rooted to any given spot.

Fighters, on the other hand, can mark large numbers of opponents, and hold them still - preventing them from even making an attack against their allies.

-O

 

[knightofround]

Shielding swordmages are perfect. They get the job done, but they can't free+multi mark or dps like Fighters. And they don't have the survivability of Paladins. Instead they're the best at "hey, you must attack attack me" Their dps output on single targets is weak, but they have a wide variety of short burst AEs that makes them a ghetto Controller just like how a Paladin is a ghetto Leader.

What I'm struggling with more is the assault swordmage. The assault mechanic is too weak imho, they are like a fighter except they don't get attacks on enemy shifts, they can only mark one target at a time, it only triggers if your ally was actually hit, you lose your positioning, *and* it requires a minor action to mark.

Which is really too bad, because I would be more interested in playing an offensive swordmage than a defensive one.

 

[Kishin]

I like the class thus far, but its damage output is perhaps the worst of any class presently (Its certainly the worst of the three defenders, by far). Which makes the Assault Swordmage, as Knightofround said, feel awkward. Fate-Spurned Foe and one of their many ongoing damage effects can help, but there's a definite lack.
They do manage to have some great multi-target control and a ton of mobility effects though, which makes them interesting to play and fairly useful.

I think in a party with two defenders, having a Swordmage AND a Fighter or Paladin would make for an extremely effective combination, much moreso than a Fighter and a Paladin would.

 

[Paradigm]

I do a really nice amt of damage with my assault swordmage, more than any fighter I've seen thus far. When I am not doing a lot of damage it is fine because that means the big bag guy is not hitting anyone.

 

[Cadfan]

I'm one of the people who hated the 3e options for a fighter/magic user hybrid.

The swordmage is nice... but its not what I wanted. It is, however, what a lot of people I know wanted, so I don't begrudge it.

The problem is that there are a lot of versions of a fighter/mage out there in people's minds. You've got:

Guy who fights and casts spells in equal amounts, but does so completely separately. When he fights, he fights like a fighter. When he casts spells, he's tossing around fireballs like a wizard. And ne'er the twain shall meet. 3e version: a few generic multiclass fighter/wizards.

Guy who casts lots of spells and then fights with a sword as backup when he's out of spells. 3e version: almost all multiclass fighter/wizards, due to players realizing once they're multiclassed that +1 caster level is better than +1 BAB.

Guy who mostly fights like a fighter, but occasionally casts one or two spells that facilitate his melee fighting. 3e version: hexblade.

Guy who fights in melee while using magical powers expressed through his melee combat. 3e version: duskblade, sort of, the desert wind and shadow hand disciplines, definitely, and a few PRCs that made nods to this idea.

The swordmage is that final version. Which is cool and all, but I tend to prefer the one above it, and I tend not to like traditional D&D style arcane magic. Its too theme-free, with every type of spell thrown into a massive pot and stirred. You can use it to make themed spellcasters (a swordmage who uses cold powers, for example), but the system works against you at every turn.

 

[Akaiku]

Higher level swordmages can mark more than one person at a time. Double aegis and total aegis. How exactly are fighters marking everyone constantly every fight? Stances?

 

[Voadam]

Teleport combat bamfing is not my view of a gish.

It is fine as its own class and goes with the eladrin theme but it is not the melding of magic and martial that I am realy looking for. Multiclassing and ritual spell casting is closer within the 4e framework.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Depends on how you define Defender. If you define Defender as "makes enemies preferentially attack you instead of someone else" then the Shielding swordmage is far and away the best defender. As a DM, knowing that any damage a marked bad guy does is reduced by (5 + Con) makes me waaaaaay more likely to attack the marker than a simple -2 to attack, or even some automatic damage or retributive attack.

Remember that they can only do that for a single attack of an enemy, since it requires an interrupt. If the enemy can do multiple attacks, it is less effective.

I'm playing a swordmage, and I'm enjoying it. He does less damage than other defenders, but on the other hand he has a much easier time of attacking multiple opponents and thus doing damage at least once per round.

 

[Mournblade94]

Why are multiclassed fighter/mages called gish?

 

[proto128]

Githyanki fighter/mages were called gish. WotC designers popularized it as shorthand for characters that swing swords and cast spells.

That's what my Jargon check got me, anyway.