[SWSE] Are Jedi just plain better than everyone else?

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Anyone think Order 66 an extremely weird thing to happen?

It's like the Storm Trooper Effect working extremely in reverse.
I mean normally jedi's are really hard to kill but then one day a bunch of clone troopers just up and finish half of 'em or more.

I've always been a fan of mixing the pre-"Stormtroopers are Clones" development from the EU with what we learned in AotC.

So, in the Clone Wars, you have extremely competant Clone Troopers who are very, very well trained. They are programmed with short life spans, ageing quickly, and so die, if not in combat, not long after the war is over. Cloning is outlawed after the war, though its doubtful that Palpatine would obey that law knowing him.

So, the Stormtroopers after would not be completely clones. If they are, they aren't of the original batch, and definitely aren't as effective. But at the same time, you get just general recruits into the Stormtroopers, which are actually a separate branch of the Imperial Military from the Army.

So the mix of recruits who aren't exactly the best trained soldiers in the galaxy plus aged and/or lesser-quality clones compared with the effective clones of the Clone Wars could explain why the troopers have little trouble gunning down Jedi while the Stormtroopers during the Galactic Civil War have trouble hitting well...anything.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I liked the idea of the first Zahn books that the Clone Wars became that bad because many clones went mad eventually. This doesn't mesh well with the prequels, unfortunately.

If you're willing to retcon a bit, you could introduce the idea that still happened, but it wasn't so bad for the first batch of Clone Troopers - they were grown relatively slowly. But when the Seperatists began to launch their own rapid cloning program, they discovered that it might be possible to create Clones a lot faster than the Camino did, but it will ultimately lead them to a quick death or madness.

The emperor abandoned the Clone Troopers since the Camino only created a limited amount of batches, and he didn't want to wait another 10 years for the next batch of healthy Clone Troopers. So he banned cloning technology all together and drafted regular people into Stormtrooper services.

 

[Klaus]

In the EU, the Empire sends stormtroopers to shut down the Kaminoans, who pop out some Clone Troopers. Kinda like Original Trilogy vs. Prequels. The Originals won.

 

[LostSoul]

Anyone think Order 66 an extremely weird thing to happen?

Yes. I thought it was very lame. But I really only consider 2 sources when I'm playing Star Wars: the first 3 movies and my own games.

I am a Lucas, so I can say it's all Lucas-approved.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Per the Force chapter, a character with the Force Sensitvity feat can use a talent choice from any class to select one of the Force talents listed in that chapter, with the only restriction that you can't pick tradition-specific talents if you're not part of that tradition.

According to the Class Features section of the Crimelord PrC, Crimelord talents "must be selected from the Infamy or Mastermind talent trees ... or the Influence talent tree." I would say the class description supercedes the Force chapter, but YMMV.

 

[Asmor]

After reading the descriptions, I have to agree with Jonathan Moyer.

I didn't look at every class, but I looked at several of each. The base classes say something like "may be chosen from the following tree."

The prestige classes, except the crimelord, all say "may be chosen from the XXX, YYY or ZZZ talent trees."

And the crime lord specifically says must.

Given that talents are basically the crime lord's class feature, I think that that slight change of wording is intentional, specifically to prevent jedis from becoming crime lords just for the extra talents.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Per the Force chapter, a character with the Force Sensitvity feat can use a talent choice from any class to select one of the Force talents listed in that chapter, with the only restriction that you can't pick tradition-specific talents if you're not part of that tradition.

Possibly, but I see J Moyer's point too.

 

[ruleslawyer]

For the original poster: Why on earth did you have to color code red and blue? That was making me sick reading that with some weird 3-D effect. You put names by each comment, that's enough for people. Save the coloring for MS Paint or something, please.

Like Boba Fett, right? He was, what, 15th level, with three classes or so under his belt and Luke basically handed his @$$ to him. It was cool that Boba Fett wasn't afraid of him, but then again, Luke wasn't no Mace Windu either.

I highly doubt that Boba Fett was 15th level. Also, Luke did *nothing* to take him out if you remember; Luke busted out of Boba's grapple-cord thingy, but it was Han and Lando who took him down; further evidence that the non-Jedi do just fine.

IOW, I think that Asmor's point is spot-on. The fact that Jedi are "more powerful" than non-Jedi doesn't necessarily mean that a Jedi of x level should be more powerful than a non-Jedi of x level. Ideally, it should mean simply that the Jedi out there average a much higher level, and therefore are much more powerful, than the non-Jedi.

To a certain extent, this is the tack I've taken with my current Iron Heroes campaign set in Faerun (of Forgotten Realms fame). Wizards and magic rule the roost in the Realms, but the mighty workings whose results are glimpsed by PCs were done by insanely high-level characters. A caster of equal level to a martial PC is NOT going to be significantly better than that PC in combat or out.

 

[Klaus]

According to the Class Features section of the Crimelord PrC, Crimelord talents "must be selected from the Infamy or Mastermind talent trees ... or the Influence talent tree." I would say the class description supercedes the Force chapter, but YMMV.

Every class lists the trees from which Talents can be taken, and none of them say "if you have Force Sensitivity, you may instead take Force talents", to save space. I think the Force rules supercede the class descriptions.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Every class lists the trees from which Talents can be taken, and none of them say "if you have Force Sensitivity, you may instead take Force talents", to save space. I think the Force rules supercede the class descriptions.

Sounds like one for the FAQ thread over on the WotC forums...