[SWSE] Fiddling

[Acid_crash]

The Jedi could easily be changed to Monk, and the Force aspect just simply Monk abilities, give them flavor names and bamm, you have yourself a mystical warrior who is just intuned with his/her body and finding the power within.

Instead of the powers being from an energy field that is generated by living things, they are just powers that the truly gifted would be able to tap into.

It's not hard, plus with just a change in thought and paradigm we now have a mystical warrior class that would fit perfectly into a fantasy game. And a much better monk than what is in D&D.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

What about:

Martial Artist [Human Female Jedi 1]

Str 14
Dex 15
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 8

HP: 31
BAB: +1
Melee Attack: Unarmed Strike (+3 to hit, 1d6+2 damage)
Reflex Defense: 10 + 1 (Jedi) + 2 (Dex) + 1 (Level) + 1 (Dodge) = 15
Fortitude Defense: 10 + 1 (Jedi) + 1 (Con) + 1 (Level) = 13
Will Defense: 10 + 1 (Jedi) + 1 (Wis) + 1 (Level) = 13
Damage Threshold: 13

Feats: Force Sensitive, Weapon Proficiency (Simple Weapons, Lightsaber), Martial Arts I, Force Training.
Trained Skills: Acrobatics, Initiative, Perception.
Talent: Acrobatic Recovery or Elusive Target
Force Powers: Battlestrike, Surge.

Another option would be sub-out Force Training for Acrobatic Strike, Pin, or Trip.

Though this PC is of the Jedi Class, I don't see an issue with it being someone who isn't a Jedi but is naturally talented with the Force at a young age.

The biggest glaring issue I see is that in order to get any benefit from Force Training (i.e. use Force powers), you need to have Use the Force as a trained skill. So either swap a trained skill for UtF, or drop Force Training for something you qualify for.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

So what base classes would you recommend for a Force Warrior (a non-Jedi martial artist)? How about the Kamino Ascetic from the minis game (a martial artist)... Scoundrel?

Absolutely Scoundrel. Or maybe Scoundrel/Noble.

Take a close look at the Kaminoan Ascetic. Yes, he's a non-Jedi martial artist. He's also a TERRIBLE piece. His fighting abilities frankly aren't very good. One imagines he probably has some esoteric skills, meditative techniques, etc. that make him an above-average martial artist, but that doesn't change the fact that even a rebel trooper has a good chance of killing him with a blaster rifle.

The most advanced martial arts in the Star Wars universe draw on the Force (some would make the case that the same is true IRL, swapping 'the Force' for various terms using by internal martial arts styles; 'Chi,' if you will ) and these are the only martial arts consistently able to cut the mustard in the face of a galaxy full of high-powered energy weapons.

Now, since one generally doesn't want to play a character who, quite frankly, sucks, if one wants to play a character like the Kaminoan Ascetic, one looks at what he does OUTSIDE of combat situations (where he's not very good). Martial Arts are his weapon when he must fight, but he strikes me as probably being better at sneaking, maybe treating injuries, etc. He might even be Force Sensitive (but not Trained, at least at the low level of the one in the minis game) and end up as a Force Adept/Force Disciple.

About the only thing I would do is add a feat 'Skill Expansion: add any two skills (other than Use the Force) to your list of class skills.' Make that a bonus feat for every class, same as Skill Training and Skill Focus. Now, it requires the expenditure of two feats, but it does avoid multiclassing and characters DO get a ton of feats in Saga.

 

[pawsplay]

Take a close look at the Kaminoan Ascetic. Yes, he's a non-Jedi martial artist. He's also a TERRIBLE piece. His fighting abilities frankly aren't very good. One imagines he probably has some esoteric skills, meditative techniques, etc. that make him an above-average martial artist, but that doesn't change the fact that even a rebel trooper has a good chance of killing him with a blaster rifle.

Well, he's a low level mini without a blaster. Give him stunning strike, unbalancing, and Martial Arts III and then we're getting somewhere.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Well, he's a low level mini without a blaster. Give him stunning strike, unbalancing, and Martial Arts III and then we're getting somewhere.

If he survives long enough to get all of those

 

[Destil]

About the only thing I would do is add a feat 'Skill Expansion: add any two skills (other than Use the Force) to your list of class skills.' Make that a bonus feat for every class, same as Skill Training and Skill Focus. Now, it requires the expenditure of two feats, but it does avoid multiclassing and characters DO get a ton of feats in Saga.

And then we have the dodge problem (you take a feat to get almost or next to nothing, until you take the next feat... at least force sensitive has a few nifty non-trained uses. Dodge, no longer being the gateway to spring-attack and with tumble still outshining mobility, just looks bad).

I've been knocking it around in my brain for a bit and this is the best I have come up with: Allow Skill Training to apply to any skill of your choice, and change the bonus feat list for each class to instead include Skill Training (only in a class skill). You can use the feat to train a non-class skill, but only with your (more limited) character class feats, not your (more common) class feats.

Of course you get fewer class feats if you multiclass, but then the problem fixes itself.

 

[Asmor]

You don't train in program writing and learn nothing about networking

You've obviously never met the CS faculty at my school...

How such computer literate people can be so computer illiterate is beyond me.

 

[gribble]

A simple example is adding a class skill you would like. For instance, you'd like a Soldier who can Tumble. The earliest this can happen is 3rd level. Either you take two levels of Scoundrel or Jedi and select it as your bonus feat, or you take one and select it as your third level general feat. You can maiximize Talent acquisition by taking mainly odd numbers of classes and multiclassing, or maximize Feats by taking even levels (or rather, reduce the loss of feats to Talents).

And what happens to your Soldier who learns Acrobatics? He gets a bonus Feat, which could be Point Blank Shot (if he goes Scoundrel) or Force Sensitive or weapon proficiency (lightsabers) if he goes Jedi. If he simply wants to be a martial artist of some kind, either route adds extraneous abilities. However, he can't stick with Soldier if he wants Acrobatics. If he wants Evasion... that's a Scout talent.

Over on the Wizards boards I proposed a simple house rule to fix this fiddling problem:

When you pick up your first level of a new class, instead of choosing one feat from your new class' list of starting feats you may choose the Skill Training feat for one of your new class' skills.

It avoids both problems you have above (that you have to wait until a bonus feat level before you can train in the skill you want, and that you pick up extraneous abilities) and seems to be pretty popular on the Wizards boards.

 

[Anon Adderlan]

However, there really is nothing for free, and the problem introduced is fiddling.

***

What is fiddling? Fiddling is trying to get there from here, or to put it more clearly, trying to make exactly what you want.

[*looks at rest of thread*]

Well Q.E.D.

Or I think your point has been proven.

But each basic class has only certain Talents and certain class skills. Each basic class gets bonus feats at even levels (which could be skill training) and Talents at odd levels. Rather than throwing them all into a big pile, you have to strategize.

I have a survey on RPG.net that I really should replicate here. In it I ask if players plan out their character advancement well before they reach the levels they actually get the perks at. Something I see in a lot of RPGs are players who chart their character's destiny well in advance of, and in complete indifference to, the events in the game itself.

And I have to admit it's an element I really don't care for, to put it mildly.

 

[Henry]

You've obviously never met the CS faculty at my school...

How such computer literate people can be so computer illiterate is beyond me.

Actually, the hardware illiteracy of program writers is legendary but they should at least know the basics of how a file is stored on a PC, how to recall a file via a network connection, how databases work, etc. In other words, there is cross-training at most skills, even through osmosis if nothing else.

"Hey, I saw Han tweaking these gauges the last time the hyperdrive went on the blink! Maybe if I checked their settings..."