fireinthedust
Explorer
One more SBD goes down, thanks to Chase's excellent shot! The parts spray about the door behind the droids, giving the other SBDs something to think about.
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[SWSE] Strike hard for the Adamant!
- Thread starter fireinthedust
- Start date
perrinmiller
Adventurer
[sblock=OOC]Yeah, there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. You have three different versions of cover (Cover, Improved Cover and Total Cover) and I think you are confusing cover with total cover. Total cover is the only one that blocks LOS. Cover (including soft cover) provides +5 Ref and Improved Cover provides +10 Ref.
After you see my point, perhaps you will reconsider things and the Jedi and clones will be back since +5 Ref will leave only one SBD hit and the Droideka missed. This is an example of how I saw the battlefield:
Sonja from cover Force Slams VA-11N, with full LOS and no cover for the target. Look at the green line, they show LOS and you can see that there is no obstruction to any of the corners of the target's square. Sonja has the same with the Nikto.
Also Chase has a similar situation with firing at both the Vodran and VA-11N.
Now look at it from the return attacks. VA-11N and the Nikto both have LOS when you trace back the green lines. But, when you try to reach all of the corners of Sonja's square you have to pass through obstructions (red lines) so she has cover (+5 Ref). This has nothing to do with wall height either, the example assumes the wall is 10feet high.
Likewise Chase has +5 Ref from cover from both the Vodran and VA-11N.
Chase and the Nikto have Total Cover due to no LOS. Sonja and the Vodran have the same situation.
So bottom line, Sonja could Force Slam a group of SBDs and still be protected from almost all of the droids unless they moved enough to get the wall out of the way. Even from square Y-8 she would have cover from the Vodran and any targets west of him.
BTW, these rules on cover and drawing lines are essentially the same in 3.5ed, PF, and d20 Modern and not unique to SWSE.[/sblock]
After you see my point, perhaps you will reconsider things and the Jedi and clones will be back since +5 Ref will leave only one SBD hit and the Droideka missed. This is an example of how I saw the battlefield:
Sonja from cover Force Slams VA-11N, with full LOS and no cover for the target. Look at the green line, they show LOS and you can see that there is no obstruction to any of the corners of the target's square. Sonja has the same with the Nikto.
Also Chase has a similar situation with firing at both the Vodran and VA-11N.
Now look at it from the return attacks. VA-11N and the Nikto both have LOS when you trace back the green lines. But, when you try to reach all of the corners of Sonja's square you have to pass through obstructions (red lines) so she has cover (+5 Ref). This has nothing to do with wall height either, the example assumes the wall is 10feet high.
Likewise Chase has +5 Ref from cover from both the Vodran and VA-11N.
Chase and the Nikto have Total Cover due to no LOS. Sonja and the Vodran have the same situation.
So bottom line, Sonja could Force Slam a group of SBDs and still be protected from almost all of the droids unless they moved enough to get the wall out of the way. Even from square Y-8 she would have cover from the Vodran and any targets west of him.
BTW, these rules on cover and drawing lines are essentially the same in 3.5ed, PF, and d20 Modern and not unique to SWSE.[/sblock]
fireinthedust
Explorer
[sblock=ooc]Okay, so you're saying that cover is determined by how many corners of the target creature's space you can reach from any of the squares of the attacker?
Ie: Pick a corner of Sonja's space, and if she can reach the target in a straight line to any of their corners she has LOS, *but* how many corners she can reach determines the amount of cover.
(just want to be sure here: at home grids this has never come up in 15 years of gaming. It's either melee or area effect spells, as virtually no one here uses a bow, and never a gun, come to think of it.)[/sblock]
Ie: Pick a corner of Sonja's space, and if she can reach the target in a straight line to any of their corners she has LOS, *but* how many corners she can reach determines the amount of cover.
(just want to be sure here: at home grids this has never come up in 15 years of gaming. It's either melee or area effect spells, as virtually no one here uses a bow, and never a gun, come to think of it.)[/sblock]
perrinmiller
Adventurer
[Sblock=OOC]Yes. Except the amount of cover in SWSE is not defined by the number of corners blocked like a formula. If one or three are blocked, that is cover +5 Ref. (BTW, a person standing in front does the same thing, except they cannot provide total or improved cover, I don't think.)
Total cover means no LOS, so all 4 corners are blocked.
Improved cover is the one that is open to interpretation. I am not sure exactly how you can determine the difference between Improved cover and regular cover all of the time. Only example I can remember is this one.
Standing behind a 1m tall crate provides cover. Going prone behind it gives improved cover. Even if you draw the lines from the corners, your targets can see over the crate and gain some LOS on the person prone.[/sblock]
Total cover means no LOS, so all 4 corners are blocked.
Improved cover is the one that is open to interpretation. I am not sure exactly how you can determine the difference between Improved cover and regular cover all of the time. Only example I can remember is this one.
Standing behind a 1m tall crate provides cover. Going prone behind it gives improved cover. Even if you draw the lines from the corners, your targets can see over the crate and gain some LOS on the person prone.[/sblock]
fireinthedust
Explorer
[sblock=ooc]Ok, in that case thank you!
Also: would you help me out with a map including all the clones and droids and the jedi NPC? [/sblock]
Also: would you help me out with a map including all the clones and droids and the jedi NPC? [/sblock]
fireinthedust
Explorer
ooc: Okay, I went over the thread in light of rules info, and found some errors. Also, the attack on the destroyer droid wouldn't get past its shields. I thought Chase had attacked an SBD... so!
MAJOR REDO!
1) The destroyer attack bounced off its shields and killed an SBD
2) The attacks on Sonja for the most part missed; she blocked one.
3) Therefore the clones and the Jedi NPC aren't dead... yet
4) I'm going to ditch the Minion rules for this game. They don't mix the way I need them to with SWSE. Ergo the clones are the basic, low level clone stats. However, I want to keep things simple with them, so they act as a unit. Ditto the Jedi: I really only want it to block or aid or what have you. It's not a hero, that's you lot.
So: Two SBDs are dead.
Sonja: You're up!
MAJOR REDO!
1) The destroyer attack bounced off its shields and killed an SBD
2) The attacks on Sonja for the most part missed; she blocked one.
3) Therefore the clones and the Jedi NPC aren't dead... yet
4) I'm going to ditch the Minion rules for this game. They don't mix the way I need them to with SWSE. Ergo the clones are the basic, low level clone stats. However, I want to keep things simple with them, so they act as a unit. Ditto the Jedi: I really only want it to block or aid or what have you. It's not a hero, that's you lot.
So: Two SBDs are dead.
Sonja: You're up!
perrinmiller
Adventurer
OOC: Yeah I can but it will take me a few days. I am going on a trip and losing significant comp time. Cannot do it from my phone (like now). lol
fireinthedust
Explorer
ooc: okay, we'll muddle through without. The droids are going to surge forward soon, so they'll be in different spots anyway (ie: save you some work).
What is your action this round, then?
What is your action this round, then?
perrinmiller
Adventurer
Well, I found some time today and gaffed other games. lol
This is what I came up with prior to Chase's turn in Round 2.
In round 1 Clones killed one SBD (#10), Chase hit a Droideka (#2) with a 28 for 18 damage. Sonja Force Slammed for 15 damage on SBDs 5-8. Z3R0 sneaked off somewhere, maybe he went East off the map?
Then in Round 2 Chase auto-fired fired at a group of SBDs for his first choice & Hits Ref15 (or 16 if he forgot to add PBS maybe). That is 19 full damage or 9 half damage. Maybe taking out the same ones that Sonja Force Slammed?
This is what I came up with prior to Chase's turn in Round 2.
In round 1 Clones killed one SBD (#10), Chase hit a Droideka (#2) with a 28 for 18 damage. Sonja Force Slammed for 15 damage on SBDs 5-8. Z3R0 sneaked off somewhere, maybe he went East off the map?
Then in Round 2 Chase auto-fired fired at a group of SBDs for his first choice & Hits Ref15 (or 16 if he forgot to add PBS maybe). That is 19 full damage or 9 half damage. Maybe taking out the same ones that Sonja Force Slammed?
perrinmiller
Adventurer
Updated: Forgot Glipala (she is still playing and it is actually her turn for Round 1, correct? Her Initiative Count was same as the clones and NPCs and she has been waiting for us to settle the deflecting issue.)
Since she might need to know the positions of the two Droidekas I put their starting spots in on this map as well.
So, we just need confirmation from our GM that we are on the same page. Now that the map is done, I can update and change things fairly quickly if things are not right.
Since she might need to know the positions of the two Droidekas I put their starting spots in on this map as well.
So, we just need confirmation from our GM that we are on the same page. Now that the map is done, I can update and change things fairly quickly if things are not right.
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