Systems for PC-led gangs/crews/etc

[Campbell]

Was that violence (PC vs deputy) resolved as Seize by Force?

I am not chaochou, but I will try to answer from my experience. Seize By Force is primarily used to resolve what happens in a fight meaning when both parties are trying to harm each other. Violence or threats that occur outside of a fight use Go Aggro which assumes the other party did not really see it coming. With Seize By Force you are exchanging harm for harm where with Go Aggro they either give in to what you want or take harm as established.

The way it paints the unique outcomes of different forms of violence is its defining feature. Really almost everything a character can do in Apocalypse World is a form of violence or preparing to do violence. There's a reason the social move is called Seduce or Manipulate. Not let's have tea and calmly discuss our differences. The character are these broken beautiful things in a world that clearly needs consideration and cooperation. It's interesting because they are not fit for the job.

 

[chaochou]

Was that violence (PC vs deputy) resolved as Seize by Force?

Yes, in that instance. I did have a think about whether to nest one move inside another (in this case have SbF come out of a pick from pack alpha) but it seemed that the 'moves snowball' section ('moves nest, double up and flow seamlessly) suggested I definitely should.

As @Campbell noted above there is real nuance in the distinction between seize by force and go aggro. I'd happily say more, but in this case it's not that pertinent to the thread topic (and highly system specific).

 

[Campbell]

Another game I have run, but not yet had the chance to play that features mob mechanics is Exalted 3rd Edition. So in Exalted groups of enemies that are not personally a threat to demigods chosen by Unconquered Sun, but who in large enough numbers can be threatening are represented by the battle group mechanic. Player characters can purchase the Command merit to start the game with a fighting force under their command, ranging from a dozen hardened mercenaries up to an elite army of 1000 men on a starting PC. Of course that means in the fiction you are responsible for that army and likely to draw attention to yourself.

There are host of mechanics for commanding your soldiers, preventing routes, and rallying for numbers. There are even a host of supernatural powers you can get that make you a much more effective commander. While you generally will not be as capable at personal combat as a character who focuses in that way battle groups are really strong and can easily overwhelm groups of enemies because they can attack everyone within their reach.

While there are rules for leading your troops in battle there are no systems for troop management. That is mostly a matter of framing. Generally things like morale, feeding your troops, and overall strategy decisions are handled mostly through scene framing with the GM creating named NPCs to represent the interests of the fighting force. There are some really good social influence systems to handle those needs should the occur.

There are also rules for allies, followers, and cults all of which a starting PC has access to or can be earned through play.

 

[aramis erak]

Does anyone else have experience with these sorts of elements in their RPGing. How do other systems handle this stuff?

THere's question related - minion groups or equivalent - which are largely NPC only.

In pendragon, of course.
Also...
Mechwarrior/Battletech - there are rules for running units, and playing the battles in Battletech and/or in Battleforce.

WEG Star Wars d6: scaling rules in 2E and 2ERE, Miniatures rules, Star Warriors ship combat boardgame.

FFG Star Wars has Squad rules in the AoR GM screen. They're nice. There's also the minion group rule in all three core groups.

L5R 5 doesn't have leadership rules yet, but the minion groups work just fine for NPC followers.

2d20 Star Trek has a rule for use of departmental teams as traits; it's in the core. The problem is that actual rules for security teams in personal combat are pretty vague. My read of it is they are simply a +1 success on a main characters attacks. It's implied they can be used as uncontrolled minor characters (only allowed Diff 0 actions, which includes minor actions); the Red Alert tabletop combat rules (in the Ops Dept. expansion) imply they get to be independent combatants. And, of course, the momentum spend for more minor NPCs....

 

[MGibster]

Savage Worlds has rules for followers. Some characters can purchase Edges (advantages) that gives them access to soldiers, ruffians, or other such followers. It's pretty simple and works well in game play.

 

[pemerton]

Savage Worlds has rules for followers. Some characters can purchase Edges (advantages) that gives them access to soldiers, ruffians, or other such followers. It's pretty simple and works well in game play.

In general mechanical terms how do these work? Eg in Burning Wheel a player can purchase a follower and/or a gang for his/her PC as part of PC build, but a follower is just another character (ie nothing mechanically distinctive) and a gang/crew is an Affiliation, which is a mechanical bonus to bring a friendly NPC into play. So there's no distinct mechanic for resolving gang/crew action.

 

[pemerton]

My read of it is they are simply a +1 success on a main characters attacks

I think there's something to be said for NPC followers as a buff like that. That's kind-of how HeroWars handled it.

 

[MGibster]

In general mechanical terms how do these work? Eg in Burning Wheel a player can purchase a follower and/or a gang for his/her PC as part of PC build, but a follower is just another character (ie nothing mechanically distinctive) and a gang/crew is an Affiliation, which is a mechanical bonus to bring a friendly NPC into play. So there's no distinct mechanic for resolving gang/crew action.

There's no distinction in Savage Worlds either. The followers resolve actions pretty much the same way the PCs do for the most part. But in SW, when a character gets followers because of an Edge they don't just get one. They get at least 5 and they're all going to be the same type of NPCs. i.e. They're all soldiers, assassins, thieves, etc., etc. There's some simplification when it comes to experience and keeping track of possessions but as far as game play goes it's not that different from a regular character.

 

[Campbell]

So one of the things that makes the way Exalted approaches things like Allies, Followers, Cult, and Command fairly unique is that while these things are part of your character build they are explicitly not something you get to keep regardless of what happens in the game. They are all classified as Background Merits, meaning that you can only use build resources on them during character creation. Otherwise they must be earned and can be lost during the course of play. The text of the Ally merit emphasizes that your Ally is a character with their own priorities and that the relationship must be a two way street or the relationship will likely worsen over time.

This emphasis on maintaining your fictional positioning and treating these characters as people with their own hopes and dreams is something I deeply adore.

 

[pemerton]

So one of the things that makes the way Exalted approaches things like Allies, Followers, Cult, and Command fairly unique is that while these things are part of your character build they are explicitly not something you get to keep regardless of what happens in the game.

<snip>

This emphasis on maintaining your fictional positioning and treating these characters as people with their own hopes and dreams is something I deeply adore.

Burning Wheel is somewhat similar to this: Affiliations, Relationships and the like can be paid for as part of PC build, or earned in play, and can be lost as consequences of failure or perhaps voted off during the Trait Vote.

In the example I gave in the OP, from Prince Valiant, the whole thing is a result of fictional positioning and so is hostage to it also. Although this is within the context of a game that does not emphasise particularly harsh fictional positioning, which is a different from BW and perhaps Exalted.