T&T: The Game I Want To Like

[Korgoth]

I want to like Tunnels and Trolls. It has a lot going for it: it's old as the hills, it hasn't changed much (I'm told) over time, it's grounded in the dungeoneering and exploration milieu that guys like me love so much. It's Old School. It has a really neat Save mechanic that manages to combine Saving Throws and Attributes-As-Skill-Bundle very elegantly. And monsters have ONE stat. What is not to dig?

And yet... there are some things that I have never been able to wrap my brain around. The combat is very either-or. Death spiral starts up almost right away and persists. Worse still, the equipment list is a major PITA: you've got a billion different weirdo weapons, all with tiny shades of difference in STR and DEX requirements and damage. I much prefer OD&D where all weapons do the same damage! Worst of all, the magic system is encumbered by GOOFY spell names, and the lack of some very basic and flavorful effects like a persistent necromantic spell ala Animate Dead.

I dunno. It bothers me that I don't really like it that much. It seems like I *should* like it. Like either I'm missing some hermeneutical key which will unlock its awesomeness, or the lipstick just has that pig all tarted up nice. *shrug*

 

[pemerton]

I've never played T&T seriously - just mucked about with it a little bit (and mostly solo dungeons).

I went back to have a look at it after reading some of Ron Edwards praise for it in his GNS essays - but personally still don't feel the charm.

I'm guessing that to make it work you need (i) a big stable of PCs - more characters than players - and (ii) you have to embrace those goofy spell names, and the silliness more generally (including the death spiral, and what are sometimes absurdly hard saving throws), and roll some dice in a pretty lighthearted fashion.

Do you know Roger Musson's article on dungeon design from the early years of White Dwarf (it's reprinted in Best of White Dwarf 2). That reads to me like the sort of dungeon I might explore in a game of T&T. I don't think it's going to do anything very serious - certainly not Tolkein, but probably not Conan either.

 

[Thunderfoot]

T&T has always been the "red-headed step-child" of the RPG world. It's kind of like this game, or kind of like that game. It's never really had that big product that took it over the top or a mechanic that made it stand out from the rest of the pack.

The biggest draw has been that unlike most other RPGs, it does have a viable solo mechanic. But for a genre that embraces social values (regardless of what the rest of the world might believe) that isn't much of a selling point.

I like it, but mostly because it's a "beer & pretzels' version of OD&D. Literally minutes to learn and the goofy names lend to bad puns and loose naming conventions. If you don't take it too seriously, it really does feel like a totally different game. I've always imagined that OOTS is actually a T&T game gone rogue..

 

[pemerton]

It's never really had that big product that took it over the top or a mechanic that made it stand out from the rest of the pack.

It's combat mechanic is pretty distinctive - pool all the dice from each side, roll, and compare.

 

[pawsplay]

It's charming, but shallow. Even the "optional" ranged weapon rules didn't add much spice. And while there is a certain philosophical cleanliness in giving all monsters one stat, it was really hard for me to wrap my head around:

GM: You meet some goblins.
*everyone rolls dice*
GM: You take 27 divided by 4 equals.... six damage apiece.

GM: You meet a beholder.
*everyone rolls dice*
GM: You take 47 divided by 4 equals.... twelve damage apiece.

And it has some really odd features. Like, if you wanted to play an elf or a dwarf or something, there weren't any races or anything. You just write it on your character sheet. But there are rules for playing a leprechaun. And fighter-mages are just better than rogues, period.

But if you want to play a game of hungamunga-hurling, spiked club wielding fighter-mages beating up blobs of Monster Rating, this is your game. I suggest, as a wine selection, Boone's Strawberry Hill.

 

[Dice4Hire]

If I had the right group I would like to play some of these old variants.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Oh, just wait until you try the Bunnies & Burrows expansion.

 

[Korgoth]

But if you want to play a game of hungamunga-hurling, spiked club wielding fighter-mages beating up blobs of Monster Rating, this is your game. I suggest, as a wine selection, Boone's Strawberry Hill.

Even though I'm the one who started complaining about it, I think that's a bit harsh. I think the real gem is the SR system, which if you don't do much with it would make the game dull as heck.

I dunno. Either it's missing something or I am. A lot of people dig it but I've gotten flak at a T&T hangout for mentioning reservations about it. Ideally I'd like someone sold on the game to sell me on it, rather than merely gawk at my un-selledness.

 

[pawsplay]

Even though I'm the one who started complaining about it, I think that's a bit harsh.

Maybe. Then again, maybe I'm just a terrible T&T player. I went straight for the throwing blades and spiked clubs every time.

 

[Thunderfoot]

<SNIP>
I dunno. Either it's missing something or I am. A lot of people dig it but I've gotten flak at a T&T hangout for mentioning reservations about it. Ideally I'd like someone sold on the game to sell me on it, rather than merely gawk at my un-selledness.

There was a First Quest in an issue of Dragon (I can neither remember the issue or the name of the author) that talked about his first convention and getting a ride back from it with the Flying Buffalo gang. He was pretty excited about T&T - actually it's one of the reasons I decided to check it out again after fooling around with it early in the 80s.

It's like any system, playing with the right combination of folks who either understand the mechanics, the feel or the overall concept makes a huge difference when playing a game rather than playing it "cold". I wish you luck in your endeavors, please keep us posted, because quite frankly, I'm interested in what you discover.