"Tabletop D&D Has Lost Its Way" Says Pathfinder Video Game Exec

Feargus Urquhart, one of the execs from Obsidian Entertainment, which is behind an upcoming Pathfinder-themed video game, told Polygon why the company chose to go with Paizo rather than WotC for tabletop fantasy inspired games. "One of the reasons we actually went with Pathfinder was ... how do you say it? I'll just say it: We were having a hard time figuring out how to move forward with Dungeons and Dragons." The issue, he says, is that "D&D is a part of Wizards of the Coast and WotC is a part of Hasbro" and that he would "love to see D&D be bought by someone and become what it was before... Become TSR again."

Of course, TSR went bankrupt, so I'm not sure wishing that on somebody is a kindness.

Urquhart is a long-time D&D video game exec, having worked on games like Neverwinter Nights 2; he points out that "I'm probably one of the people who has one of the most electronic D&D games that they've worked on". Now, of course, his company has moved on to Paizo's Pathfinder.

The upcoming Obsidian video games will be based on the Pathfinder games - specifically a tablet game based on the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, due in the next few months. The studio is, of course, known to tabletop RPG fans for D&D games like Neverwinter Nights 2. Urquhart did hint at non-card-game based projects, saying that "We're thinking about how can we take traditional RPG stuff and put it on the tablet. No one has solved it really."

You can read the short interview here.

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[KirayaTiDrekan]

This is true, but so is the converse. Just because a company is embarking on what may be the most fiscally viable path doesn't mean I have to like it.

Now, I shouldn't argue my opinion as any sort of business plan, I agree. What I want the company to do might drive them bankrupt, for all I know. But I have no obligation to cut them any slack simply because of a business plan. The only rationale for that is if I tie the health of the product with the health of the company. While I don't think they're orthogonal to one another, I don't necessarily think there's a strong correlation.

Quite simply, I find the current release schedule to be BORING, and that's the worst sin for D&D's release schedule, for my interests. There's nothing to talk about other than "What's WOTC going to do next?" and "Gosh, 5e is a solid game, how about that bounded accuracy?" We were already looking forward to Sword and Fist and the FRCS at this point for 3e, and Martial Power and the 2 FR books for 4e, plus the knowledge that PHB2 was coming. This lull is driving me away from talking about D&D on message boards. I'm reading the Paizo.com message boards again, for God's sake!

Conversely, I'm completely on board with the slower release schedule and have found myself drifting away from Pathfinder. Several releases a month is way too much for me, both from an affordability standpoint and a "when am I going to find time to read and use this stuff in campaigns?" perspective. I like that 5E is taking its time, allowing the core rules to get some play time behind them before supplementing them.

The fellow from Obsidian says that tabletop D&D has lost its way and should be more like the TSR era - which TSR era? It seems he's nostalgic for late 2nd Edition era. Because 5E seems, to me, to be hitting the early TSR era just fine - core rules and adventures and not much else. A company or two putting out their own compatible stuff (Judges Guild back then, Goodman Games and a couple of others now), some officially licenses miniatures...yeah, Gygax era TSR is what this feels like to me.

 

[DEFCON 1]

This lull is driving me away from talking about D&D on message boards. I'm reading the Paizo.com message boards again, for God's sake!

Well, that's fine! I have no issue with you or anybody just saying flatly "This sucks, I wish I had more product to read and maybe use", and leaving it at that. I don't think most of us would. It's only when certain people then extend that sentiment to "And WotC sucks as a company for doing it this way, and they're losing all their business, and it's no wonder every other company is so much better than them, and if they keep doing it this way I'm taking my ball and going to Paizo and then where are they gonna be then, huh? HUH?!?"

In other words... try to make their opinions actually have real weight. Enough weight that their posting on a messageboard will be the light that clicks on at Wizards where they'll finally "get it" and suddenly change up everything they are doing. It's too bad though that's not how it actually works.

 

[TBeholder]

This article is a thing of beauty.

tell you that the '70s fantasy tabletop role-playing game may have lost its way.

No objections on the general principle, but... how to put it delicately... No. I cannot. Let me just use links to webcomics to illustrate concepts.
Anyhow, glad he noticed this..
Wait, this comes from someone from the crew that once upon a time released Neverwinter Nights? The game mostly made of lolrandom stuff occasionally using proper nouns from FR? Even before 4e?
Huh, it's strange how some people ran D&D into such a dead end.

to see D&D be bought by someone and become what it was before... Become TSR again

Become TSR again? I dunno, all signs point at "they already have produced viable clones of Lorraine Williams, with excessive redundancy".

Obsidian's best computer RPG to date (NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer) was based on 3.5E by WotC...

Cool, two in one!

Judging by his comments, he hasn't even seen, read, or played 5e. It's more like a TSR edition than the two previous editions before it.

How so? It looks like D&D5 = D&D3 (most of d20 base) + D&D4 (ritual casting, bells and whistles per day, general style...) + C&C (saving throws, skills).
But D&D3 and D&D4 are "the two previous editions", and Castles & Crusades wasn't produced by TSR. I'm reasonably sure that D&D5 was actually playtested, too. So... exactly what there is "more like" TSR?

"Man with vested interest in Pathfinder disses WotC"
Unprofessional (IMHO), but about as surprising as discovering that water is wet.

There's always "chicken or egg" question... but yeah, it's funny how his eyes suddenly opened now...

 

[TwoSix]

In other words... try to make their opinions actually have real weight. Enough weight that their posting on a messageboard will be the light that clicks on at Wizards where they'll finally "get it" and suddenly change up everything they are doing. It's too bad though that's not how it actually works.

This I agree with. I have no idea what WotC should do. I suck at reading tea leaves. Mostly because I chew on them for some tea flavor.

 

[Mark CMG]

"Man with vested interest in Pathfinder disses WotC"

I'm with you! I only trust the negative opinions of people who have no vested interest in what they are discussing or, better yet, have a vested interest in NOT giving a negative opinion. These folks who have seen both sides and have an opinion that lines up with the life-changing decision they made to move from working with one corporation to its rival just ring hollow.

I wouldn't put any weight behind their career decision as backing up what they think, literally putting their money where their mouth is. Nor would I attribute their decision to speak out as passionate rather then unprofessional. Especially not, since being labeled as unprofessional is the most likely and most easily leveled charge to make against them sharing their opinion by someone who wishes to marginalize that opinion. That weighs on me not an ounce.

There's so many places on the Internet where I see folks standing up for corporate employees who are stuck as part of a larger system and probably have the best of intentions but for their being but a cog in a wheel where they just don't have any control or the ability to steer their own course. It's very annoying when someone like this comes along and walks the walk he's talking.

Do I get a saving throw against this guy's nefarious dissing if I yell, "I diss-believe!?"

 

[Parmandur]

Well, Obsidian's behavior over the years, in what they release and how they deal with partners, can be fairly characterized as unprofessional. Running down a competing brand when Ovsidian probably wasn't in line to work on it anytime soon is just more wood on the fire.

 

[Dire Bare]

Just because you don't like what a company is doing (or not doing)... doesn't ipso facto mean what they are doing (or not doing) is wrong.

I know it's hard to accept... but maybe, just maybe... what *you* want isn't in fact the best course of action for the company.

This. Also, when people talk about TSR, it's important to remember that there were really two TSRs. Up to 1985, and post 1985. AKA, the Gygax TSR, and Lorraine TSR. When people talk about how TSR had management that ran the company into the ground, they are probably talking about Lorraine Williams TSR. When people talk about the "good ol days of D&D with TSR", they're probably talking about pre-Lorraine. Or at the very least, prior to the Blumes ing the company just before the take over.

That's important to realize, because TSR was around for a long time, and making a blanket general statement about it isn't really accurate to the context of whatever statement you're replying to.

This might overlap with Defcon 1's post a bit. TSR mismanagement started with Gygax and the Blumes, it only became catastrophically worse under Williams. TSR was never run well from day one. Like so many before or since, Gygax (and Arneson) were the brilliant creators who lost their company because they didn't know how to run it well.

And the quality and quantity of product is almost a different thing than how well the company was run, although they are of course related. Gygax's mismanagement led to the Williams era which killed the company (although it took decades). But during the height of 2E's release schedule, the volume, quantity, and differentness of TSR's D&D output was pure awesomesauce to me at the time! I remember those days fondly, as the company burned down!

People aren't nostalgic for the crappy business decisions of course, it's just that not everybody is up on their D&D Corporate History 101 and legitimately miss the days when new D&D products filled multiple shelves and their seemed to be always something new to buy.

WotC is going even further away from that business model than they did during the 3E days, and it's natural people miss the "old days" even if the new release schedule is the best possible business decision WotC can make.

Business me cautiously approves of WotC's handling of the 5th edition. Gamer me wants MORE PRODUCT NOW!!! Hopefully, when WotC is ready to release the terms of the new OGL/GSL license, we'll begin to see some great 3rd party products to fill that void.

 

[Ravenheart87]

Well, Obsidian's behavior over the years, in what they release and how they deal with partners, can be fairly characterized as unprofessional. Running down a competing brand when Ovsidian probably wasn't in line to work on it anytime soon is just more wood on the fire.

Running kickstarters is also a good way to lose prestige if you aren't an indie developer. It says "we badly need your alms to make this game". Which is a shame after NWN2, KotOR II, and Fallout: New Vegas.

 

[Sacrosanct]

This might overlap with Defcon 1's post a bit. TSR mismanagement started with Gygax and the Blumes, it only became catastrophically worse under Williams. TSR was never run well from day one. Like so many before or since, Gygax (and Arneson) were the brilliant creators who lost their company because they didn't know how to run it well.
.

From everything I've read and heard and people I've talked to, Gygax actually didn't mishandle the company prior to Williams. It was the Blumes who spent like crazy on things like cross stitching and needlepoint. In fact, Gary had to come back from Hollywood early to try to get a handle on things, but he didn't have enough % ownership in the company. By all accounts, Gary wanted to keep the company fairly small.

 

[Parmandur]

Running kickstarters is also a good way to lose prestige if you aren't an indie developer. It says "we badly need your alms to make this game". Which is a shame after NWN2, KotOR II, and Fallout: New Vegas.

In video games, for sure. Plenty of Bioware/Black Isles successor companies, like Beamdog, don't need to go there, and still have contracts with companies like WOTC.

Even those pretty good games you mention are highly flawed follow-ups to other peoples work. I might never forgive Knights of the Old Republic II as a customer.