taking 10 - exactly what skills and skill uses are covered?

[evilbob]

Taking 10

When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.

I've seen "taking 20" explained about a dozen times and I feel really comfortable with that mechanic. However, the above quote is the only thing I can find about taking 10, and it doesn't really explain it well enough. Can you literally take 10 on any check as long as you are not threatened/distracted? This makes no sense to me on certain checks, like when you only get 1 shot no matter what and being threatened/distracted makes no difference. My best example is Knowledge checks. It makes no sense that you could take 10 on something that is a measure of your knowledge, especially when being threatened makes no difference on the roll: you get one roll, and that's it. You either know or you don't. Spellcraft checks to determine properties of stuff also seem to fit into this category. Can you take 10 on these rolls?

What about hiding? If you're hiding and getting ready for an ambush and have all the time you need, can you take 10? What about jumping? What about profession checks to earn money - you're never really distracted or threatened then, can you just take 10? Handle animal? Survival checks to find food?

Please help clarify!

 

[lukelightning]

You can take 10 with just about any skill. Use Magic Device is an exception, and it says so in the description of that skill.

I can't find any hard rule about this, but I get the feeling that most games don't allow taking 10 on knowledge checks.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

You cant take 10 in combat (unless you have a ability or feat that says you can), so identifying a monster while fighting it is a no no. You can take 10 if it doesn't specificily say you cant. The point behind taking 10 so you don't botch a important roll. Crafting is a good example of this.

Unlike take 20, You take 10 on checks that may have deadly consequences like jumping a cliff or something to that effect.

 

[Aegir]

I wouldn't allow take 10 on Hide/Move Silent simply because while there may be no danger when you start, the whole idea of hiding and sneaking is to avoid danger, which implies that they're never in a position to take 10.

About the furthest I'd go on that is, I've occasionally allowed PCs an always-on "take 1" on move silent, sort of as a representation of the characters innate ability to avoid detection.

Most other skills, I've always treated take 10 as, "You've got the time and lack of danger to focus your total attention on the task, but your actions aren't any more thorough/cautious then a normal attempt"

Regarding knowledge checks, if its knowledge that I deem might have something regarding it triggered by a DC 10/15 check, then I'll often assume a "Take 5" and toss a minor detail or two to a PC, which is basically what I call, "the topic of conversation immediately brought this to mind". If the PC wants to try and recall anything more specific, he can roll.

 

[Mistwell]

I wouldn't allow take 10 on Hide/Move Silent simply because while there may be no danger when you start, the whole idea of hiding and sneaking is to avoid danger, which implies that they're never in a position to take 10.

"Danger" is not relevant for taking 10, just taking 20. "threatened or distracted" is the relevant criteria. You can take 10 on Hide and Move Silent, as long as when you are making the check, you are not threatened or distracted.

Regarding knowledge checks, if its knowledge that I deem might have something regarding it triggered by a DC 10/15 check, then I'll often assume a "Take 5" and toss a minor detail or two to a PC, which is basically what I call, "the topic of conversation immediately brought this to mind". If the PC wants to try and recall anything more specific, he can roll.

You can take 10 on a knowledge check, as long as you are not threatened or distracted.

I really do not understand why people would look for new ways to limit the use of taking 10. Taking 10 is your friend, not your enemy. Randomness is not a virtue for either the PC or the DM, just a necessity sometimes. Taking 10 represents the AVERAGE roll, and it's the sort of thing a person should be able to do for anything if they have a moment to compose themselves and think without distractions.

 

[Stormtower]

You can take 10 on a knowledge check, as long as you are not threatened or distracted.

I really do not understand why people would look for new ways to limit the use of taking 10. Taking 10 is your friend, not your enemy. Randomness is not a virtue for either the PC or the DM, just a necessity sometimes. Taking 10 represents the AVERAGE roll, and it's the sort of thing a person should be able to do for anything if they have a moment to compose themselves and think without distractions.

Mistwell's interpretation matches how I handle knowledge checks IMC and Take 10 in general, but I have seen many interpretations, including RPGA DMs who do not allow Take 10 on knowledge checks, Hide or Move Silently. This seems to be one of the most frequently reinterpreted rule governing skills (whereas Take 20 is very consistently applied in my experience).

 

[phindar]

I'm not wild about Take 10 when it comes to Climb checks. I generally rule it that if there's chance you'll take damage from a failed skill check, that counts as being threatened. (It always annoys me when a STR 8 guy with no ranks in Climb turns into a special forces fast rope/rapelling ninja because he knows he has no chance of failing.)

Is there a rule where you can't Take 10 or 20 with skills you are using Untrained? Because if there was, that would go a long way towards soothing my nerves on this issue. (I'm just not wild about absolute certainty I guess. I prefer a little uncertainty combined with a Karma mechanic like Hero or Action Points.)

 

[Transit]

I wouldn't allow take 10 on Hide/Move Silent simply because while there may be no danger when you start, the whole idea of hiding and sneaking is to avoid danger, which implies that they're never in a position to take 10.

You're exactly right. A Hide check is an opposed roll made by the person you're trying to hide from. A Move Silent check is an opposed roll made by the person who might hear you. Miss the check once and you are heard/seen.

So by their very nature, Hide and Move Silently cannot be used with either Take 10 or Take 20.

 

[evilbob]

Another problem I have with taking 10 on certain types of rolls is that it become a guarenteed success for an average, level 1 character. For example, a level 1 fighter (or even commoner) with a 10 in Wisdom could "take 10" on a survival check to "get along in the wild." If a skill can be used like that, why even bother making a DC for anything that's 10 or less that's used out of combat? Anyone in the world with a +0 modifier in the relavent stat can do it 100% of the time. Other skills are similar: anyone with a Cha of 8 and 1 rank in the skill can handle any animal out of combat, ever. Anyone with 1 rank in profession and at least an 8 in Wis can make 5g / week. (This seems out of tune with the economy of the world.) Heck - anyone not distracted or threatened can steal a palm-sized object with 1 rank of sleight of hand. Anyone with 10 Int can make "typical" items with craft (again: strange for the economy).

Knowledge in particular still bothers me, mostly because it's a one-time shot. It seems really strange to be able to improve your chance of success by not being distracted for something you "either know or don't know."

I will admit that Mistwell's interpretation seems to be the RAW-supported one as far as I can tell, however.

 

[lukelightning]

I'm not wild about Take 10 when it comes to Climb checks. I generally rule it that if there's chance you'll take damage from a failed skill check, that counts as being threatened.

What, is the wall trying to hit you? Taking 10 has nothing to do with threat from possibility of failure. It has to do with the ability to concentrate on a task at hand.

And even more, it keeps the game going along smoothly. A DC 10 climb check should not be some huge obstacle to the party.

....Anyone with 1 rank in profession and at least an 8 in Wis can make 5g / week.

The rules aren't meant to create a realistic simulation of economics and society. They are meant for parties of adventurers.