Talent Trees - The Way To Go?

[Connorsrpg]

Ok, so I have seen this mentioned across various threads (mostly by me ), so I have decided to put my thoughts in one place.

Basically, what if all of Race, Theme AND Class abilities worked like Talent Trees (from Star Wars Saga)? After each Race/Theme/Class grants a few bonuses up front they each give you access to various Talent Trees.

I see a few advantages to this. For race, you could grant the physical givens up front (dwarves are sturdy) and the cultural abilities could be Talent Trees. So an elf would typically be granted access to the Woodslore and Archer Talent Trees (hypothetically). If a DM doesn't like the typical 'woodsy' elves then they just grant access to different Talent Trees.

You could actually have several TT's applying to each race, but at generation the player chooses 2 of them. I would take the same approach for classes, but make it 3. Themes - well they could be a TT on their own.

So at generation a PC has access to 1 Theme, 2 Racial and 3 Class Talent Trees. Gaining a Talent each level the player can choose which part of their character to emphasise.

This would mean separating Talent Trees from classes. Basically have a Talent chapter. (For those that don't want customisation, stick with basics given with race and class - Talents are for those that swap out. Though 'archetypes' with talents chosen (like Savage Worlds) would be very appropriate too).

I have other thoughts on this, but will wait til after discussion has started, so this post is not too long.

 

[john112364]

We were discussing this at our game session last week. I like the idea myself. I think it would add customization without having to worry about unbalancing anyone. Or overwhelming anyone either. Sadly I doubt WotC will go this way. But maybe if we keep preaching they will make it a modual.

 

[bert1000]

I love this and was thinking something similar as I thought SAGA did multiclassing the best. I would like to see 2 talents given per level though and just get rid of feats.

I’d like talent trees in the following categories at least:

1) Race
2) Class
3) ‘Profession’ broadly defined including knight, werewolf, etc. (theme variant 1)
4) Organization (theme variant 2)

At 1st level you get access to 2 race, 1 profession, 1 organization, and 3 class talent trees with potentially access to more at different tiers later on (and perhaps the ability to swap out talents trees later on as well).

So you pick:

Elf
Fighter
Bounty Hunter
Member of the Skyfarers guild

Or

Halfling
Mage
Vampire
King’s Grey Circle

or

Human
Thief
Assassin
Veiled Alliance Member

 

[john112364]

That's a good point about multiclassing. I thought Saga had a great system to prevent cherry picking the various classes. WotC should take a lot of lessons from The Saga system.

 

[Dausuul]

Well, the guys doing this edition are Mike Mearls and Monte Cook, who are also the guys responsible for "Iron Heroes." The IH feat system looked rather like what you're talking about. So you may get your wish, even if it's labeled "feats" rather than "talent trees."

 

[BobTheNob]

Another way to think about this is to look at whats happening around the RPG scene in general. 5e is "going back" through its history. Games like DCC are actually looking like alot of fun, WOW is scrapping skill trees altogether, as is Diablo 3 and guid wars 2 (which everyone is so excited about!) didnt even bother with them.

(Yes, I know I did make some computer game references and yes, I know there isnt direct parity with table top)

I follow many RPG's at many levels and what Im seeing for RPG's in the post-naughties is a move AWAY from complication and back to simplicity.

We have gone through an era of "balanced" design and hyper class-configurability, or skill tree and feats and "Oh my gods, look at how I can design my character!", yet Im seeing design going the other way.

The tree idea would work, but it just feels like pushing mechanical complications in an age of game design where we are stepping back from that.

 

[trancejeremy]

My only experience with talent trees are in MMORPGs, but I really can't stand them there. They're too limited, because each branch of the tree basically ends up like a different class in all but name.

And since power invariably increases further up the tree, you can't really dabble in more than one concept.

I'd rather see pools, where you can select anything, not follow them up a tree...

 

[Raith5]

While I agree with the OP, and would like to see them in practice, dont they cut across the idea of unifying past editions?

My experience of TT has been in computer games (Skyrim, Dragon age etc) and I like them in terms of being able to customize characters, tweak with archetypes/enable multiclassing, etc. I also like 4th hybrids. But I am not sure TT are old school enough for D&DN!

 

[Sirot]

Can someone explain the talent system in star wars saga to me?

 

[Traken]

Can someone explain the talent system in star wars saga to me?

Saga has two main sources of abilities: Feats and Talents. Each level in a specific class alternates between getting a class feat or a talent. You also get a character feat at the standard intervals (3, 6, 9...).

Feats are your standard D&D feats that increase situational things or provide straight boosts of power. Just about every character can take every feat. The only real exceptions are ones that specifically improve Talents. The class feats that you get every other level are chosen from a list specific to the class you earned it from. The character feats can be chosen from any feat you meet the prerequisites for.

Talents are your D&D class abilities. When you get a talent in a class, you can choose from any of the talents you meet the prerequisites for. There are certain trees that can build upon each other, requiring the talents before them to take later talents.

For example, one talent tree in the Soldier class deals with wearing armor. The first talent gives you a small boost if you are wearing any armor. The second talent gives you a pretty decent boost if wearing at least so much armor. The third talent lets you add half your character level to your AC when wearing armor (normally you only use armor or your level).

However, if you don't like or want armor, maybe you take talents from the "blow up" tree. Or you take one from each. Or you multiclass and grab some talents related to sneaking around.