D&D 5E (2014) Tasha's Summoning and Sorcerers

[Aldarc]

A bard with no rhythm.

I thought that was a lead guitarist.

 

[Helldritch]

This relies on a personality trait (I rely on myself and my own power) which is not indicative of all sorcerers.

And what about the interpretation that the spirit summoned is just their own power given physical form? Then they are still only being self-reliant loners, but creating servants purely from their own power and psyche.

And, the idea that summoning a living whirlwind to smash your foes is somehow less direct than casting invisibility or Detect Thoughts makes zero sense to me.

This has been the basis for the sorcerer's power from the begining. Feel free to ignore it and continue to wonder why it does not make sense.

For the spirits. Well... subclasses are there for a reason? To give you more than what the base class assume or a new twist to it. If everyone get to do the new trick of the subclass... why the subclass in the first place?

 

[embee]

I thought that was a lead guitarist.

And a rhythm guitarist is a bard that only knows 3 chords.

 

[Helldritch]

And a rhythm guitarist is a bard that only knows 3 chords.

Stop pulling our strings...

 

[Aldarc]

And a rhythm guitarist is a bard that only knows 3 chords.

Anyway... what do you call a bard without any talent?

Spoiler

Answer: a drummer

 

[embee]

Anyway... what do you call a bard without any talent?

Kanye West

 

[Chaosmancer]

Anyway... what do you call a bard without any talent?

Spoiler

Answer: a drummer

Okay, real talk, Drummers are a vital part of any band. As a guy who was in marching band, the Drums were our backbone.

I know it is a meme, but I gotta stand up for my mates, they had mad skills.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has been the basis for the sorcerer's power from the begining. Feel free to ignore it and continue to wonder why it does not make sense.

Sorcerer came about in 3.X right? Taking a perusal through the PHB from 3.5 I see nothing in the class description that says they "prefer to do things personally"

I do note they can summon Familiars, They also had access to Summon Monster 1 thru 9. command undead, Mordenkainen's faithful hound... so yeah, the basis for the sorcerers power was not that they prefered to do things themselves instead of "waste[ing] time with petty summons."

Now, I will grant that 4e didn't have them summoning anything permanent (plenty of abilities that involved a temporary summoning of something, like Blackfire Wyrm or Flight of Dragons), and 5e clearly has decided that isn't a thing, but to declare that it has been a thing since the beginning... seems to be false.

For the spirits. Well... subclasses are there for a reason? To give you more than what the base class assume or a new twist to it. If everyone get to do the new trick of the subclass... why the subclass in the first place?

Since I'm talking about a subclasses, and the other two subclasses in Tashas get summoning spells.... what is your point?

I think the bigger issue is that there are a few sorcerer subclasses where it makes sense, instead of just one at a time.

 

[Remathilis]

Since I'm talking about a subclasses, and the other two subclasses in Tashas get summoning spells.... what is your point?

I think the bigger issue is that there are a few sorcerer subclasses where it makes sense, instead of just one at a time.

The issue is that twice now, WotC has added bonus magic to subclasses (ranger and now sorcerer) in supplements but haven't retroactivity added them to prior subclasses, making them inferior to the newer ones.

This book literally was about adding supplemental options to older content; why they didn't give "optional" bonus spells to hunter, beastmaster, draconic, wild, divine soul, shadow and storm sorcery is mind-blowing.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Since divine soul sorcerers get access to the cleric list, they get summon celestial (and don't forget that planar ally doesn't need concentration, so if you have a little time to kill, the DS sorcerer can have can 2 higher-than-CR-2 flunkies). I have long wondered if sorcerers (in general) have been left off the summon/conjure spells to avoid some kind of twinning abuse ("but I am only targeting one fire elemental on the Elemental Plane of Fire with conjure elemental").

I have to admit that I was surprised that they didn't add any retroactive bonus spells to the sorcerers and ranger subclasses in the PHB.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

The issue is that twice now, WotC has added bonus magic to subclasses (ranger and now sorcerer) in supplements but haven't retroactivity added them to prior subclasses, making them inferior to the newer ones.

This book literally was about adding supplemental options to older content; why they didn't give "optional" bonus spells to hunter, beastmaster, draconic, wild, divine soul, shadow and storm sorcery is mind-blowing.

I did my own retroactive bonus spells. It wasn't hard, but certainly annoying that WotC clearly recognizes what bonus spells add to a subclass, and now published a book that specifically could have addressed the issue but didn't.