Teleportation overcomes tripping?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Actually, I forgot about the Prone Fighting feat. It makes being prone pretty much not a hindrance at all. But it requires Lightning Reflexes, the worst of the 3 +2 save feats, which as a whole are pretty bad, so I've never seen someone take it.

 

[Ashtagon]

I see several scenarios for teleport and related spells...

Porting to a moving vehicle: If the vehicle is the target you are visualising as your intended destination for teleport, there is no penalty, although you'd still need to be familiar with it, and it'd still need to be in range. I'd also require the vehicle to be a large one to be counted as a viable destination -- at least large enough to stand inside and having a roofed section -- something that count be counted as a type of moveable building (based on the idea that it must be a destination that has a layout that can be memorised; you can't simply teleport to your favourite steed who you named "Lucy", or to the family station wagon).

If using dimension door or a spell where you are aiming at the location where the vehicle happens to be, rather than the vehicle itself specifically, I'd make that a DC 15 caster level check with modifiers based on the vehicle speed. Failure means you arrive immediately after the vehicle. Failure by 5 or more means you arrive immediately before the vehicle.

Porting from a moving vehicle: As long as the intended destination is in range both at the start and end of casting the spell (ie consider where the vehicle was on your previous turn and now), there is no penalty. Otherwise, DC 15 caster level check to hit your intended location, GM determines where along the route you arrive if you fail, with arrival point being along the vehicle's path, then shifted according to what direction from the vehicle you intended to arrive (picture this as jumping off a moving train to land on a building alongside the train, and misjudging the moment to jump).

Porting to/from the same posture: if you are on a stable surface both immediately before and after the port, you arrive in the same pose. Similarly, porting from one ladder to another requires no special skill.

Porting while climbing: Porting to a wall while climbing requires a Climb check to catch the wall immediately on arrival. DC depends on the wall in question.

Porting from climbing/swimming/prone/kneeling/standing to standing/kneeling: DC 10 Balance check or fall prone.

I also take the attitude that you arrive stationary relative to your destination (so you can dimension door onto a vehicle and not slam into its back wall, or dimension door immediately after a vehicle left that spot and not fly sideways), and that arrival orientation is at the choice of the person being teleported.

 

[Dandu]

Actually, I forgot about the Prone Fighting feat. It makes being prone pretty much not a hindrance at all. But it requires Lightning Reflexes, the worst of the 3 +2 save feats, which as a whole are pretty bad, so I've never seen someone take it.

Shocking, isn't it?

 

[kitcik]

They arrive in the same relative position to the surface that they left. The teleportation device / spell does not distinguish between up / down / left /right --> it only disinguishes relative position to surface. So, in the Trek example, if you transport to a planet "below" you or "above" you, you stil end up on your feet; but, if you are lying down when transported, you are still lying down when you arrive. This was true in all cases I remember (such as the mountain climber).

I think that given RAW requires you to end up on a surface capable of supporting you and nowhere does it say it allows you to change position, the only logical conclusion is this. Otherwise, if you can end up in any position you want, I believe abuses could be conceived. Therefore, prone is still prone.

There are three schools of thought I've seen WRT teleport, relative position vs absolute position, and momentum conservation.

This is just wrong. There are certainly more than 3, including the one I describe above, and I do not think all of your 3 are valid.

1) Relative momentum and position are conserved. If you were falling when you teleported, your falling distance prior to teleporting is conserved, and when you land, you take the sum of pre-teleport + post teleport damage. Likewise, if you were prone when you teleport, you are prone after teleporting.

How can there be "post teleport damage" if you must appear on a surface capable of holding you? I have never heard of ANYONE playing teleportation this way.

2) Absolute momentum and position are conserved. This one gets wonky. It means that like StreamsoftheSky mentioned, if you teleport to the other side of the planet, you'll both be upside down and suffer issues due to the fact that while your angular momentum remains the same, your absolute velocity is what it was on the other side of the earth, including direction, which may fling you backwards, skywards, or groundwards with incredible force (dependant on the size of the planet and its spin velocity). Physics, don't teleport without it!

Again, I have never heard of ANYONE playing teleportation this way. So, your first two of the 3 schools of thought appear to not be schools of thought at all, as far as I can tell.

3) Its magic beeches! You can do whatever you want because while you are travelling astrally from your old position to your new position (instantaneously), you can change your position, momentum, and posture. You arive exactly where you want under the exact conditions you want because magic is just freakin sweet like that.

I tend to like the 3rd. Given that teleportation more or less works by transporting you briefly to the Astral Plane and then back to the Prime, and that while you are Astral, you move via the power of thought, you can "think" yourself into whatever position or momentum or whatever before you blink back into the Prime.

I grant, this is a popular option, but not the only option by a long shot.

I have provided another above, and [MENTION=72335]Ashtagon[/MENTION] has another reasonable possibility.

 

[Ashtagon]

Ooh, one more crazy corollary of my rules above...

Let's say we were camping for the night and a goblin araid has panicked my trusty steed. I want to dimension door onto the back of my horse so I can calm her down.

First, it's a DC 15 caster level check to see if I arrive at the steed's location at the exact moment. Immediately after would do if necessary, and immediately before would subject me to a trample attack from Bessie.

Assuming I land on target, it's then a Ride check to see if I can stay on the horse. The nearest conceptual equivalent in the SRD is a fast mount, which is normally DC 20. However, since you are technically already on the horse rather than trying to get on, I'd make that easier. So DC 15 it is. Won't Bessie be surprised!

 

[Wyvernhand]

First of all, there are many different types of teleports. None of them say anything about actually landing on the floor or other surface. Heck, Dimension Door works like a vector. If you can't see where you are going, pick a direction and a magnitude within the range of the spell and there you are. If that direction is straight up, or straight down into the earth, it still works and you suffer the consequence.

The line you are talking about, the one about surfaces that support things, that only applies to the summoning and calling subschools of Conjuration. Teleports are in the teleport subschool. There is no such rule for the teleport subschool.

And for reference, I've seen 1 and 2 debated on other boards before, which is why I mentioned them. I've also played under DMs who ascribe to 1 and 3. So dismissing them as invalid because you have never heard them is...invalid. sure, there might be other cases, as you have said, but those are more or less the things I've seen discussed. You basically called me a liar, which is kinda uncool.

 

[kitcik]

First of all, there are many different types of teleports. None of them say anything about actually landing on the floor or other surface. Heck, Dimension Door works like a vector. If you can't see where you are going, pick a direction and a magnitude within the range of the spell and there you are. If that direction is straight up, or straight down into the earth, it still works and you suffer the consequence.

The line you are talking about, the one about surfaces that support things, that only applies to the summoning and calling subschools of Conjuration. Teleports are in the teleport subschool. There is no such rule for the teleport subschool.

These are both good points.

And for reference, I've seen 1 and 2 debated on other boards before, which is why I mentioned them. I've also played under DMs who ascribe to 1 and 3. So dismissing them as invalid because you have never heard them is...invalid. sure, there might be other cases, as you have said, but those are more or less the things I've seen discussed. You basically called me a liar, which is kinda uncool.

I've seen an orbital laser platform debated before (on this board); that doesn't mean anyone actually uses it in their campaign.

Dismissing things you actually saw posted in this thread with your "3 schools of thought" comment was invalid by definition.

That said, I never meant to imply you were lying - I apologize if you took it that way - just that you were incomplete in your assessment, and overemphasizing options that seem unplayable.

I continue to think the "transporter" analogy works pretty well, where your position relative to the surface is maintained and you have no momentum. I guess I am less fixed on always arriving on a surface.

 

[Vegepygmy]

The line you are talking about, the one about surfaces that support things, that only applies to the summoning and calling subschools of Conjuration. Teleports are in the teleport subschool. There is no such rule for the teleport subschool.

You are incorrect.

The rule in question appears under the heading "Conjuration" on page 172 of the 3.5 Player's Handbook, just before the sections that set forth rules specific to each of the five subschools. It is thus a general rule that applies to all conjuration spells.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Explain to me why Dimension Door has rules for teleporting inside of objects then?

Either that rule doesn't apply to teleports, or Dim Door includes rules for a situation that can't happen.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Explain to me why Dimension Door has rules for teleporting inside of objects then?

Either that rule doesn't apply to teleports, or Dim Door includes rules for a situation that can't happen.

Because specific rules trump general ones. Dim Door has its own specific rule that thus supercedes the general rule. If any rules text on teleportation, anywhere at all, had text to contradict the Conjuration rules, it too would spuercede those rules when it came to teleportation. In the absence of such, however, the rules of the conjuration school apply.