Tell me about languages in your game

[AIM-54]

Interesting comments thus far. I remember when I first got into fantasy (some 12-13 years ago, now) being somewhat confused about the 'common' language. I think it's useful in game terms, though I think I'd like it more like a Latin language than just the language everyone speaks...somewhat universal, but not necessarily everyone speaks it. But I like that kind of flavor, so that's pretty much what I've done with my homebrew. I also don't like the automatic literacy thing (the fact that my formerly Int 6 half-orc monk was automatically literate bothered me somehow), but I tend to like sort of grittier settings, in which it's less appropriate.

But I'm a big history and language nerd and I like to have that kind of flavor to my settings.

 

[John Morrow]

Tremendously amusing was when the wizard cast Comprehend Languages to talk to the kobolds, but couldn't make her Diplomacy/Bluff checks to get her point across. The kobold chieftain just kept saying, "Yes, you're [completely wrong interpretation that I forget]. I get that. Please quit wasting my time."

Just because people understand the meanings of words does not necessarily mean that they understand the meaning that was intended. For example, many Americans automatically equate "I understand" with "I agree" while many Japanese use "I understand" to mean "I comprehend what you are saying" with no implied sense of agreement. This causes all sorts of problems for Americans doing business in Japan. Having worked in a largely Japanese office in Tokyo, I think that speaking words from the same language don't necessarily create comprehension and understanding, especially when people aren't saying exactly what they think or mean. I was also able to have some quite culturally Japanese conversations with my co-workers in English.

 

[WayneLigon]

I have had them encounter things like local features whose name translates to 'It's a mountain, idiot' or 'the forest where my aunt was eaten'.

 

[Desdichado]

I've given language some thought. Here's a quote from another post I made several months ago on this topic...

Oddly enough, the GM of our other game with this same group, Mrs. Shadowlight (who is an infrequent lurker here) independently came up with this same concept, although it hasn't yet been integrated into our game. Her idea was something along the lines of taking various ranks in Speak Language just to make it not such a throwaway skill. One rank and you can do things like ask where the bathroom is, and say, "Hello, my name is xxx." Two ranks, and you can have relatively decent conversations and/or readings of texts in that language, three ranks and you speak with native fluency. Four ranks and you can recognize regional dialects, archaic versions of the language, technical jargon, etc.

It'd be a static skill, though -- you wouldn't actually make checks, you'd simply dictate (by the amount of ranks) how well you spoke/read a language.

She also proposed that languages with some similarily could be purchased as class skills, i.e., one skill point per rank. Something that was fairly different; alphabetical writing vs. ideograms, for example, or adding a difficult or unusual element like tones, etc. would cost you the equivalent of a cross-class skill to pick up (two skill points per rank.) Something totally alien, like mimicking the clacking mandible sounds of thri-kreen, or something like that could even potentially cost you three skill points per rank.

 

[Mercule]

Just because people understand the meanings of words does not necessarily mean that they understand the meaning that was intended.

An excellent reason to have the skill vs. the spell.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Mechanically;

I make Speak Language a serperate skill (Int Based). When you put points in Speak Language your total rank goes up as well. I basically said a DC 5 check to understand normal speech in your same tongue, DC 10 (or more) for complicated, flowery speech (as as legal terminology). You may also make a speak language check to identify a written/spoken phrase in a language realted to your own (French to Latin). THe DC can vary from DC 15 (very similar) to DC 25 (very different). Local accents and slang can impose a modifier to the check.

You can't make a check for a language not related to your own (Celestial & Infernal are good examples in my campaign world), nor can you make a check when reading in an alphabet you are not familiar with (i.e. my midwestern but trying to read kongi (sp?), Asian characters).

THis allows me, the DM to simply say: "Look on your sheet & make me a DC Blank check." For my own world I know which languages are related to which, so I can keep it all straight in my head. For my games I often reward players who invest in languages by throwing obscure clues in the game whcih can aid the party if the can read it. (Read Languages is a spell rarely 'at hand' ready to be cast in my games).

My game world:

First, I made Languages pretty static. They'll find the off-beat fragment from a dead language now & again, but most of the time it will simply be in an archaic from of an existing language (modifiying the Speak Language DC roll). I do keep Elven & Draconic really stable, little linguistic change as both races are really long lived & thus chage occurs more slowly.

I have, however, changed how common works. Ther are several 'commons' based on where you are from. If you are from the far coast of the Idle Sea your Common will be "Giant, minotaurian", if you are from most of the rest of the main continent, your common will be Auld Condorian (named for the colonizing empire that once dominated the area). Of you are from the Condorian itself your Common will be Infernal (as the Empire just threw off the yolk of several centruies of Infernal Rule & were forced to learn the lingo or die. Those from the Underdark have Necris (aka, undercommon) named for the Lich Lords who dominate vaste tracts of the ways beneath.

 

[Gez]

Here's my house-rule for languages IMC.

 

[der_kluge]

I've given language some thought. Here's a quote from another post I made several months ago on this topic...

I did something sort of like this in my last campaign, but I like your solution better. I had magic like any other skill, with ranks, etc. Everyone started with 10 ranks in common, and their racial language. Having 20 ranks in a language meant that you were Shakespeare with that language, and could manipulate it in ways most people couldn't. 5 ranks in a language was "Hi, my name is" and "where is the bathroom" kind of stuff.

Mages had to have 2 ranks in Draconic for every spell level they wanted to cast. So, 10 ranks to cast a 5th level spell.

Clerics and Paladins got one bonus rank in a number of planar languages like celestial every level.

Druids got bonus ranks in Fey, and something else which escapes me ATM.

My experience with it was that it was largely a waste of time, since the tongues spell still completley negates the reason to have any language skill at all.

 

[der_kluge]

I'm curious how GMs here have handled "ancient, dead languages" with regards to spell use? Do you rule that comprehend languages and tongues simply don't work on them, or do you allow them to work?

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

I'm curious how GMs here have handled "ancient, dead languages" with regards to spell use? Do you rule that comprehend languages and tongues simply don't work on them, or do you allow them to work?

Spells wrok very similar to modern translation software. Grammer & slang translate poorly or incorrectly. Thus the spell might give "Dragon not red work not on molar giant of little blue grass; safety none or death certain." Sort of stuff that tells the PC's you have found the Armed Nuclear Warhead. Basically enough for them to know they're screwed & they now they're screwed & also enough to know they might have an out, just won't know it until after the fact.