Tell me about Loxo in your World:)

[diaglo]

is it just me? but every time i see the word loxo ... i think of someone writing in l33t speak for Love.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I'm going to use them just cause they are different from the usual stuff.

 

[takyris]

But you have GOT to read Lucifer's Hammer (all time best "Comet hits the Earth" story ever) and Legacy of Heorot (written also with Steven Barnes)....You will not regret adding those to your collection. If you do, I'll refund your money!

Rel, you wanna send that via Paypal, or...?

Seriously, I don't wholly regret reading Lucifer's Hammer -- it's good for me to see how the other half writes -- but it should be clearly stated that this is idea fiction, proudly written by folks with an ironclad grasp of their science, a massively researched if -- then sheet for facts regarding how it would all work, some fantastic ideas about the physical effects and coping methods that would spring up in a cataclysmic event like this, and perhaps one sheet of binder paper devoted to the characters, each of whom most likely got one noun and one adjective to describe 'em. Wealthy Hobbyist, Everyman Reporter, Homespun Mailman, Plucky... Female.

This is not a wholesale slam. Hard Science Fiction is the fiction of ideas, and this fully delivers on that front. But as much as the lads like to sneer at the fantasy writers who don't spend five or ten pages talking about the hip-bone of the antelope and how it was the first instance of tool use, those of us in the sword-clanging aisle of the bookstore will occasionally raise eyebrows at the hard-sf people's adorable attempts at character.

Except, of course, that in most bookstores, the science fiction and fantasy sections are combined, which makes just as much sense as combining the mystery section with the romance section.

end-hijack...

 

[Ibram]

Now that looks rediculous. This big ass elephant head on a guy? Meh.

Thats a fairly poor picture of a Yagite, the book "The Comming of Conan" has a better picture in the story "The Tower of the Elephant" (which is the only story to ever feature a Yagite. Its body is supposed to look shrunken because the Yagite was tortured by a sorcerer for over a hundred years.

Loxos have no place IMC, unless used as a unique monster or daemon.

 

[Rel]

end-hijack...

...resumption of hijack.

Well, Tacky, though I'm sorry that you were not so fond of Lucifer's Hammer, I didn't make the "or your money back" deal with you. I was responding to John Q. Mayhem who said:

I loved The Mote in God's Eye to death, one of the best SF stories ever IMO.

If it were instead:

I read Footfall and it was kinda...meh. I felt the characterization was weak and the aliens were stereotypical and bland.

then I would not have jumped in to recommend these other books. But I was addressing somebody who was admittedly a fan of this duo and Lucifer's Hammer is widely regarded as one of their best books together. I'll also say that Legacy of Heorot might be a bit more to your liking, if you've not read it, for reasons I'm about to explain.

I'm a big fan of science fiction, particularly hard science fiction, more particularly that written by Larry Niven and his various collaborators. I can agree with you that some of his books have characters that are not fully fleshed out but I think this is somewhat a necessary characteristic of the scope of the books rather than a poor performance by the author(s) in question (you may disagree about that). After all, we're talking about a book that touches on dozens of characters in an epic tale about the impact (litterally) of a catastrophic event across the globe. So the focus is on the event and, only to a lesser extent, the characters.

I think the same charge can be leveled at lots of books about global catastrophe. Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising is similar in scope and has many of the same issues regarding characterization. When you are hopping from one character to another through the course of the book to illustrate how this event is making its effects felt throughout the world then you are going to have to let characterization take a bit of a back seat or your book is going to be several thousand pages long. I might even enjoy that on occasion, but most publishers are not going to go for it.

I'll also make it clear that I'm not a blind adherent of Niven's. He has written some stinkers and even some of his work with Pournelle has been uninspiring (I thought The Burning City had some interesting moments but was not all that riveting to somebody who lives outside Los Angeles). But he is perfectly able to portray a character who is multifaceted and deep. I think Louis Wu is a great example. He's almost what you'd call a "paripatetic iconoclast" . So I feel that "idea fiction" (and Ringworld and the sequel are very nearly the definition of "idea fiction) needn't be lacking in good characterization.

And I fully agree that there ought to be a separate "Science Fiction" and "Fantasy" section in the bookstore. Not because I don't like either but because it would make it easier to find the one that I'm more in the mood for at the moment.

 

[Terwox]

I used them in a campaign.
It was a ranger, it hid in the trees and talked to the party's ranger, and then went about its business once it found the party wasn't a threat.
They never saw the thing.

The first time I saw the things I started laughing.
Then I read about them, and I laughed more.
I just found them a bit too absurd, as did my players.

If you can do something cool with them, though -- more power to you!

 

[takyris]

...resumption of hijack.

Heh. Sorry for reading you out of context in terms of the recommendations. I'd read that as "Everyone should like these", and that was my bad.

...I can agree with you that some of his books have characters that are not fully fleshed out but I think this is somewhat a necessary characteristic of the scope of the books rather than a poor performance by the author(s) in question (you may disagree about that).

Agree completely. I don't think Niven is doing a bad job. I firmly believe all the complimentary things I said about Lucifer's Hammer, in addition to the snarky stuff.

And yeah, different genres have different selling points. Looking at my original post, I was taking out some of my snarky frustration on you after reading stuff into your post that you never actually wrote. Sorry about that. The current trend at a lot of the SF conventions has the Hard SF crowd staring down its nose at the fantasy readers ("They don't have any original plots!", "It's totally unrealistic!", "They're silly and escapist and not entertaining to anyone with a scientific mind!"), which, of course, leads to reactionary people like me.

My bad -- sorry.

 

[Scarbonac]

I'd say the Loxo were very heavily influenced by the alien invaders from Niven & Pournelle's book Footfall.

BTW it's a great read and has does an excellent job of presenting an alien culture...

Dammit, ya beat me to it.

Decent book. Funky aliens.

First time I saw a Loxo I thought "FOOTFALL!"

I haven't had a chance to use them, although I have a continent set aside for various animal-people (tabaxi, gnolls, thanoi -- DL walrus-men --, rakasta, wemics, etc) that I've been wanting to guide my players to. Maybe I'll go ahead and set them up there.

 

[Rel]

My bad -- sorry.

Don't sweat it. I figured it was just a misunderstanding.