Tell me about Tri Stat Games?

Alzrius said:
Hence why a Wizard 5/Cleric 5 is always less of a favorable character than a Wizard 10.

Please don't be so heavy handed with the absolutes (like "always"). What is favorable depends strongly upon the type of game you play, and how you like to play it.

In the archetypal dungeon crawl, where the focus is on combat and enccounters of CR greater than the average party level are common, yes, single-classed characters are favored. In general, any game which expects the PCs to try to maximize the number of dice of damage they can deal out in a small number of rounds, and that are designed so that the party survives if a single character can hit a high-DC check, will favor single classed characters.

Other DMs may expect the PCs to have a more broad skill base, so that they call for more of the party members to be able to hit lower DCs. They may tend to wear the party down with a large number of low-CR encounters instead of hitting with only a few high-CR challenges. For these games, single-classed characters are not necessarily optimum.

There are many gamers who decide they want their characters to be the absolute best at whatever their shtick is. And in Tri-Stat, each player may do so, so long as the shtick is reasonably narrowly defined. In D&D, if the shtick is not in line with an available character class, a player might feel they have a problem, true.

But, if thorough maximization in a narrow field is not your character concept, or if such maximization is not called for by the challenges presented by the DM, there's little issue here.
 

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Umbran said:
I'll throw in what I've heard as a common complaint about Tri-stat: Relative lack of detail. People who like D&D's six stats, or White Wolf Storyteller's 9 stats often find that tri-stat characters lack definition and detail by comparison. YMMV.

The problem is that that is not entirely a valid complaint - the way the defects system is designed takes care of this, and more besides - technically speaking, when useing defects you can also account for: Strength, Aglility, Endurance, Intelligence, Wits, Perception, Luck, Willpower, Charisma (the major aspects given), Manual Dexerity, Running Speed, Immune System, Memory, Savy, Intuition, Presence, Empathy and Composure (the minor aspects), in addition to any and all other aspects that you want to make up with the Less Capable Defect - a character with a high Body, who just wants to be agile takes Less Capable Strength and Less Capable Endurance, and for anything requireing those two stats, his score is conisdered lower (About 3 points lowwer for every point of defect taken).

About the classes vereus points debate, it's a non-issue to me. Neither one really impacts the role-playing of a character overly much, and both are fun - which is why my main games are dX, D&D, Marvel Universe and Uh... Well, The Sailor Moon RPG....

Edit: Sacy is not a word, let alone one that has to do with attributes... More the moron me.
 
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Umbran said:
Please don't be so heavy handed with the absolutes (like "always"). What is favorable depends strongly upon the type of game you play, and how you like to play it.

If the semantics bother you that much, then you can substitute always for "any standard-style d20 campaign".

d20 mechanics focus on combat, much more than skills or interaction. Fighting and slaying other creatures are at the heart of it. Hence, a single-classed spellcaster will do better because they can deal out more damage with their higher level spells, hence they'll "always" be more favorable.

Other DMs may expect the PCs to have a more broad skill base, so that they call for more of the party members to be able to hit lower DCs. They may tend to wear the party down with a large number of low-CR encounters instead of hitting with only a few high-CR challenges. For these games, single-classed characters are not necessarily optimum.

Except that the way the d20 system is designed, these games are far from being the norm. For one thing, the generic party mix (of single-classed characters) can easily handle the above scenario due to the fact that the diverse members of the party tend to cover most skill applications relatively well. Likewise, throwing many low-CR encounters at a party doesn't necessarily favor multiclassed characters, as low-CR creatures will consume less resources from the party; a high-level wizard most likely will not waste his Power Word Kill on a group of orcs, even if they're the fifteenth group of them he's encountered in a row (since, quite likely, they'll have a hard time even hurting him, let alone the rest of his party).

There are many gamers who decide they want their characters to be the absolute best at whatever their shtick is. And in Tri-Stat, each player may do so, so long as the shtick is reasonably narrowly defined.

The difference comes when not sticking to a narrow field though. d20 penalizes you for having a wide range of abilities much more than Tri-stat does.

But, if thorough maximization in a narrow field is not your character concept, or if such maximization is not called for by the challenges presented by the DM, there's little issue here.

There's a great issue if it's in a d20 game. Tri-stat is good because there is, relatively speaking, little in terms of character advancement over a campaign (especially compared to the points used to build a character in the first place). In essence, the majority of a Tri-stat character is done when he's first made. This means that branching abilities out have less impact because less is lost, being closer to the end of possible character advancement than the beginning.

A d20 character is only at 5% of his final characterization (assuming the standard 20-level progression) when he's created. A character who multiclasses is (in terms of class abilities) essentially starting over, and it becomes more and more expensive to do so, as each new level costs more. A 15th-level Fighter who takes his next level in Wizard is getting much less bang for his experience points than at 1st level.
 

Hmmm.....I am looking for flexibility, simplicity and one other thing that I have yet to find (completely) in a game: believability. D20 Modern almost does this for me. It does part 1 and 3 well, but simplicity...hmmm?

Lemme explain:

In a linear progression folks can change their mind. What if they do not have the "background" abilities, Feats and skills to fit what they are thinking and want? This takes me back to my growing disdain for the Class system and how it can pigeonhole a player...

I want a system where the Character is basically the same from start to finish, but whatif along the way the want some changes; some modifications can be made without a lot of headache.



If that makes sense?
 

I believe it was JoAt that reminded us that any system works well as long as it allows us to what we want perse-role playing. Thanks for that. And thanks to everyone for being civil=I know I am asking you to voice your loyalties and *that* is inviting some *tests*... ;)
 

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