Temp. Ability Increases = Permanent Character Increases?

[Marius]

Wasn't there an offical clarification on how things are done when you level? Just curious because if you're supposed to pick your skills BEFORE you increase your ability score then that would make the example even more wrong.

IceBear

I wasnt being sarcastic, by the by, Im honestly wondering..

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Again, what I was talking about had more to do with the spirit of levelling, as opposed to the letter of the rules. I leave that call up to the DM.

In this case, the spirit and the letter are the same. The spirit of the rule is that you are gaining your skills over time. If your Int over the course of a level is increased, you get the extra skill point. If it is not, you do not get the extra skill point. So in the case of the potion, you do not get the extra skill point, by the spirit and the letter of the rules. Same goes for Int boosting magic items and the ability score increase every 4 levels.

 

[Marius]

In this case, the spirit and the letter are the same. The spirit of the rule is that you are gaining your skills over time. If your Int over the course of a level is increased, you get the extra skill point. If it is not, you do not get the extra skill point. So in the case of the potion, you do not get the extra skill point, by the spirit and the letter of the rules. Same goes for Int boosting magic items and the ability score increase every 4 levels.

Again, I leave that to the DM to decide. You're working towards that level for the entire previous level, and an increased intelligence is one of the potential benefits. You can look at that sudden burst as the outcome of your entire previous level, in which case it makes sense to get the skill points. Another DM might see it another way.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Wasn't there an offical clarification on how things are done when you level? Just curious because if you're supposed to pick your skills BEFORE you increase your ability score then that would make the example even more wrong.

IceBear

Yes. You are supposed to follow the steps beginning on page 145 of the PH, in that order. If you do this, you see that skill points are step 4, and increasing an ability score is step 5. I think the Sage clarified this either in the FAQ or in a recent Sage Advice column.

 

[Marius]

Yes. You are supposed to follow the steps beginning on page 145 of the PH, in that order. If you do this, you see that skill points are step 4, and increasing an ability score is step 5. I think the Sage clarified this either in the FAQ or in a recent Sage Advice column.

Yes, this is indeed what it says in the PHB, which would mean that it was contradicted by the Mialee example. I think this is the area that the DMs Ive had had played the fastest and loosest with. It doesn't help that all the spreadsheet character creation make this happen the other way around. I just think its a question of taste, ultimately.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Again, I leave that to the DM to decide. You're working towards that level for the entire previous level, and an increased intelligence is one of the potential benefits. You can look at that sudden burst as the outcome of your entire previous level, in which case it makes sense to get the skill points. Another DM might see it another way.

That is certainly true. But the section in the PH on page 145 does say explicitly that you don't get them if your Int was not increased for most of the previous level. If someone wants to do it differantly, that is their priviledge.

 

[Marius]

That is certainly true. But the section in the PH on page 145 does say explicitly that you don't get them if your Int was not increased for most of the previous level. If someone wants to do it differantly, that is their priviledge.

Indeed.

 

[IceBear]

Thanks. I thought it was either the Sage or Sean, but I couldn't find it in the FAQ (I'm having a hard time finding stuff today).

Thanks again

IceBear

 

[Artoomis]

We just instituted a new rule in our game to avoid all the intelligence skill point nonsense. We decided that the game mechanic behind managing skill points with intellgience changes was too awkward and too hard to double-check. With that in mind we do this:

1. Temporary Intelligence Bonuses (or Penalties) do nothing to skill points at all, under any circumstances.

2. Permanent changes change the skill points per level for all levels.

Skill points are frequently miscalulated, and, under the rules as written, it can be very difficult to manage them or to double-check the math when it relies on what happened at some particular level. Our method makes it easy, and is readily justified by various means, so I won't even bother going down that road.

We think this follows the general intent of the overall D&D rules better that the actual rules for this as written.

Sorry, I know this is a house rule sort of thing and thus this is the wrong place, but I felt it needed to be said.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Getting back to your original question, the answer is no, you would not get a bunch of extra skill points because of the potion. And your hit points adjust to whatever your current Con score is, and it is retroactive back to first level, unlike an Int increase or decrease.