Thank god for ENWorld

Some long thoughts on 4E

Regarding the OP: I am one of, I guess a minority now, who isn't wild about 4E at momment. I was angry about Dragon disappearing as a magazine, and surprised at what seems to me the early timing of 4E, but I'm old enough to know that life has it's changes to those familiar things we value and that can certainly "feel" unpleasant... I'm not gainst a 4th Edition coming down the pipe since we all knew that it would come one day - but I find it a year too soon, and "the Devil is in the details" as is sometimes said. ;) :cool:

So while I'm leery of all that is 4E, and unpersuaded by all the hype, I'll keep an open mind for now :) ... Indeed I am curious about what the final outcome will be in summer 2008. The info released so far hasn't made me say "OH WOW!!!" - more like, "Interesting. We'll see for sure once it's in print on the shelf..." I am always looking for good ideas anyways. :)

But, I see already some things I do not agree with, such as Mike Mearls' position in Aug 27th/07 Design & Development at Wizards.com. There Mike speaks of more monsters being needed and that in 4E a party of 1st level PCs will be able to deal with over a dozen goblins in a balanced fight! :\ 1st level characters were never, in all my years of D&D, supposed to be able to take on such a large group of opponents - they're 1st level afterall! Hello, Mike?

So I see a change happening in the design philosophy on things that were never really a problem for creative DMs in the first place. There seems to be an interest in tightly codifying adventure design and in the process changing how the game plays/feels and therefore as a consequence limiting DMs creativity. I, as DM, use EL and CR as guidelines - not rigorous rules a DM must adhere to. I don't want my hand held and be told what to do about the number of monsters in an encounter - I can certainly figure things out with a bit of practice and my own brains! In 3E we were given all kinds of tools to help us design encounters - including the realistic application of class levels upon humanoid monsters to up the ente and make the game more interesting. Now in 4E 12+ Goblins vs a party of 1st level PCs could be a norm? Well based upon my definition of Goblin, developed from Basic to AD&D to 3rd Ed, this should be always a TPK; 1st level PCs were always too weak for such an encounter. But if the paradigm shifts into mass brawls at 1st level, then I don't see a DM's work being any easier as PCs go up in level - imagine mass brawls at 30th? :eek:

If anything about encounters in 4E that should be changed it is this: no more 13 encounters per level advancement, nor any codifying of any sort of concept on encounters. I've never adhered to this anyways 'cause it never worked. I just need general guidelines, give DMs room to manuver, and I'll take care of the rest regarding challenging players and awarding XPs.

Well maybe Mike et al will be toying with us on all this just to see what the reaction is - nothing is set in stone yet :) It's still early enough for people to speak up about what they like. It beats just accepting on speculations.

@Mike M, if you're "listening": as an RPG referee I want rules to be mature enough to actually respect my discretionary powers as a DM; my capacity for making judgement calls and my ability invoke my creativity. I want to see this in D&D - as it always was. Please do not give-in to a philosophy of codifying everything that a DM does. That'll be a real turn-off for me. Good luck with it all! :)

Again, folks, I am open, but unconvinced. Curious, but not excited. Cautious. And I will not be silent on what's good or bad.

One thing I am encouraged by is the WotC plan for a 4E SRD. Smart move! :cool:

Oh, yeah, ENWorld is good. :D
 
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I just want to say that despite whatever position I have on any given topic, the admin/moderator staff at ENWorld is the finest I have ever seen. They actually moderate threads by bringing them back on topic with gentle, but firm reminders. Also, the moderators know how to participate in a discussion without abusing their status to make "neener, neener, I'm a mod" type statements.
 

Winterthorn said:
Regarding the OP: I am one of, I guess a minority now, who isn't wild about 4E at momment.

I will probably buy it, read it, and never play it, like 90% of my RPGs.

That said, I'm excited by the release - not because of the changes or lack thereof, but because of the opportunity this gives Hasbro to flex some marketing muscle to leverage a core rules release cycle into some real attempts at market expansion.
 

Gentlegamer said:
I just want to say that despite whatever position I have on any given topic, the admin/moderator staff at ENWorld is the finest I have ever seen.

I would agree with that sentiment, and have said those same things in the past. Whatever disagreements I have with them, doesn't change that impression.

They actually moderate threads by bringing them back on topic with gentle, but firm reminders. Also, the moderators know how to participate in a discussion without abusing their status to make "neener, neener, I'm a mod" type statements.

Let's not go overboard with the praise. Your world's finest mod is still a mod.
 

blargney the second said:
Depends on your point of view, but from my angle it looks good!

I don't know where you guys live, but good help is so hard to find these days. Last time I yelled "guards, seize the heretics!" I realized that I didn't have guards. Talk about embarassing.
 


blargney the second said:
Would sacrificing minions speed things up?

Of course. Ever since they raised the elec tariff again, all the machines here are running on mortal souls. You get a good mileage out of them! :p
 

EricNoah said:
I thought the wailing and gnashing of teeth would be a lot worse than it has turned out to be. I also feared that many would take it really hard and lug their bitterness around to every thread they could find. There would only be so much of that I could stomach before I just wouldn't find it fun to be here.

Well, at first we decided not to tell you, but what the hell: A couple of the more regular posters, and some of the mods, got together and created a task force: Whenever someone got all whiny about it and ranted how their dog was run over by their girlfriend who was just leaving them, all because of 4e, the mods would delete the post and put an edited version up a short time later, while the rest of us went over there and disappeared the guy.

We really love everything you've done for us here, and we are ready to keep EN World running smoothly at any cost.

Now, if anyone things that female gorilla in the zoo looks as if it were a guy in the costume, and its rutting call beared a striking resemblance with someone desperately screaming for help through a gag: Now that's rampant paranoia, it is.
 


My post was wholly sincere . . . I've even suggested that moderators at other online communities come over here and observe to get a good lesson on how it is done.
 

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