D&D General The 10th level 2024 Monk can do 3 attacks with a BA, but only 2 with an AA

[Clint_L]

Monk 13/Druid 7 also gets you conjure minor elemental, which would be devastating on a monk. That’s five attacks at 1d10+2d8+modifiers. For utility, you’d also be a hell of an infiltrator.

Edit: oops, already mentioned.

 

[Silam]

Monk 13/Druid 7 also gets you conjure minor elemental, which would be devastating on a monk. That’s five attacks at 1d10+2d8+modifiers.

Yep, and with Warrior of the Mystic Arts, you can add 4 spellcaster levels, getting you a 6th level slot, so that can be 4d8. Plus one of your attacks can be a cantrip, so another 3d6 once per round via True Strike. It adds up.

 

[Tigris]

Both of those spells do more than grappler (hold person, for example, makes those follow-up punches into critical hits; blindness stops the opponent from misty step-ing away). However, in the grand scheme, you're not exactly wrong. I'm not trying to find a situation where this is a worthwhile tradeoff-- I don't think it is. I'm trying to find a situation where it is valuable, and minimize the levels of investment it would take. Because someone somewhere already is dipping 1-3 levels of cleric or druid with 10 levels of monk, so for them OP's realization has some kind of value.

Hold person also makes that the enemy cant attack back which I think is a big bonus! (And also others have advantage on attacking and even criting that enemy)

Yep.

Monk is one of the few where the 20th level class feature is actually attractive, making dips harder to justify... so while I think most gishes would for sure benefit, say, from taking a Fighter 2 dip for Action Surge and the other things, I find it a harder pill to swallow if comparing, e.g., a Monk 20 versus a Monk 18 / Fighter 2.

So if you're going to take non-Monk levels, then I would say, let's lean into them in a non-trivial way. So for example, 7 levels of Druid can get you CME, which synergizes well with having lots of attacks. A few build ideas with 7+ levels of Druid and 10+ levels of Monk could include:

1. Monk 13 / Druid 7. Simple, and gets you Deflect Energy at will to reduce damage from any type by 1d10 + 18 (assuming 20 Dex), which is pretty nice.
2. Monk 12 / Druid 8 if you want two Epic Boons and a 22 stat (not as nice as the two 24 stats a Monk 20 could have, but a good consolation prize I guess).
3. Monk 11 (the minimum to get to 1d10 damage) / Druid 7 / Fighter 2. With that one, you could get Weapon Mastery on a Nick weapon and do 3 attacks on the AA and 3 more on the BA, all of which would be at 1d10 assuming they're Monk weapons. On a nova round, you could cast CME as your action, then do 3 attacks with Action Surge and 3 more with your BA, and then keep doing 6 attacks on subsequent rounds too.

If the Monk side is the UA's Warrior of the Mystic Arts, then you can have a few extra spellcasting levels to bump the slot level of CME a tad higher, and also get access to stuff like Shield, Mirror Image, Haste (once you run out of slots to cast CME with) and other niceties.

I fully agree with what you say here, but the problem is a bit the build path. You need level 7 of druid to really get a big advantage out of it and in the levels towards there it might feel just weaker than pure monk by quite a bit.


Also consume minor elements in high level (as a level 4 spell) needs several attacks to make up for losing 2 attacks. Since a level 20 monk with +3 handbandages deals 1d12 + 7 + 3 damage per attack which is 16.5 which is over 60% higher than 2d8 (which is 9).

(In fact you need 3.66 attacks so at least 4) to get an advantage over just attacking 2 times more. (And this calculation does not include the fact that you have a +10% hit chance with monk keystone), so the level 2 fighter dip does help (and there only 1 level is useful because of nick).


Overall Monk has just one of the strongest capstones in the game:

• +4 Armor
• +2 to hit
• +2 to damage
• +2 to Initiative
• +2 on Wisdom saving throws
• +2 on Dex Saving throws
• +2 on Dex Skills
• +2 on Wis skills
• +2 on CR of your monk abilities
• + a bit more (depending on subclass and some more damage prevention with reaction)

And with wisdom and dexterity saving throws being common, and wisdom and dex skills being strong skills (although at this level skills matter not as much anymore)

 

[Silam]

I fully agree with what you say here, but the problem is a bit the build path. You need level 7 of druid to really get a big advantage out of it and in the levels towards there it might feel just weaker than pure monk by quite a bit.

Yeah, it's true that there could be awkward levels before this build comes into its own. One way to view it is that you are a support player, focusing on healing for a while.

How it goes could also depend a lot on the sequencing... if you multi-class late, then you're essentially a pure class for however many levels and you have the experience of playing that class (whether you start off with Druid or Monk). If you juggle the two classes from early on, it could still be interesting, but it might feel scattered for a while. A small number of Monk levels grants nice abilities, but very few focus points, which is a bummer (though they recharge easily, so depending on the typical adventuring day structure in your campaign, it may or may not work out well in the end).

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

Importantly, there is a change between 2014 and 2024.

In 2014:



In 2024:



So the 2024 rules are simplified, but also more flexible. An Attack Action is no longer required (as it would be in TWF, for example).

This opens up interesting combos, such as for an unarmed gish. Use an Action to cast a spell, and still do 3 attacks (with 10th level Flurry) as a BA!?

Where does the 1st of the three attacks come from? Assuming the other 2 come from a Bonus Action and a Ki Point for Flurry of Blows?

 

[Silam]

Where does the 1st of the three attacks come from? Assuming the other 2 come from a Bonus Action and a Ki Point for Flurry of Blows?

These are the 2024 Monk class features:

Level 1: Martial Arts​

Bonus Unarmed Strike. You can make an Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action.

Level 2: Monk's Focus​

Flurry of Blows. You can expend 1 Focus Point to make two Unarmed Strikes as a Bonus Action.

Level 10: Heightened Focus​

Flurry of Blows. You can expend 1 Focus Point to use Flurry of Blows and make three Unarmed Strikes with it instead of two.