D&D 4E The 4E Rogue...love it or hate it?

[kennew142]

Fair enough. It'll take some time to get used to the new terminology.

Even so, the builds line up extremely nicely with the options. I guess the nutshell of my issue is that, while it's possible to choose powers and options that don't line up with the builds, the appears to be a statistical encouragement to align in a certain way -- failure to do so could result in a substantially underpowered character.

Again, caveat: I'm holding out hope that the full set of rules disproves my concern.

I'm not quite sure how the character would be underpowered. Some rogues are better at strength based powers while others are better at dexterity based powers. No one character can be the best at everything. What I'm saying is that you can take any of the powers listed. They aren't limited by build or rogue option.

For every extra you don't get on your STR based powers, there is an extra that you do get based on your DEX based powers. In other words, you choose the option that best describes your character (or that provides the most extras that you're interested in). You will get all the extras associated with that option but not those extras associated with the other option.

It seems to me that the options prevent every rogue from being exactly the same. A strong rogue can still take the positioning strike, he just isn't as good with it as an agile rogue. [I can't see the actual terminology in the article right now, so forgive my paraphrasing.]

 

[JosephK]

Really, really like it!


Except for the (to me) silly and arbitrary weapon restrictions on the various powers (and sneak attack).

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

even if you like roleplaying, sitting dumb in the corner, hoping not to die while others have fun is, you know, not funny at all...

... but of course we have yet to see the ingenious OOC mechanics, skills and feats, which make roleplaying fun. But I think every rule not preventing roleplaying is a good rule. And seriously, i can´t remember any 3.5 rule supporting roleplaying...maybe some spells you never chose... and i trust the designers when they say: combat and roleplaying are not mutually exclusive anymore! (attack and utility options)

I don't disagree with you and I'm not saying I don't like the expanded combat options for the Rogue, I just would feel better if there was a little more acknowledgement in what we've seen so far that people might want to choose a particular class not for its Combat Role, but for its role beyond the battlefield.

I understood that my Rogue PCs chance to shine was more likely to happen outside of combat. I let the fighters and the magic artillery take most of the glory during combat in exchange for getting mine at other times.

Maybe they will take as much care with out-of-combat aspects and every class will have equal chances to shine, but until they show us a little bit of that, I will remain a but concerned that it is being treated as an afterthought.

 

[Incenjucar]

I like the mechanics.

I do not like the (apparent) pigeon-holing, but I'm withholding full judgement until I see if there's a valid reason for it.

Also: Boo to Binary Polls.

 

[Raduin711]

Weapon proficiencies: Limited and BIZARRE. What, every Rogue EVER knows how to use hand crossbows and shuriken, weapons that might not even be in quite a number of campaigns? And not shortbows? Unless it's extremely easy to acquire more WPs, this is a really stupid decision. I particularly loathe the shuriken, myself.

I am not crazy about shurikens in a western fantasy setting, but I'm not worried about the shuriken thing. If you look at the sample stat block for the war pick, it puts it in the pick "category". Which makes me think that we are looking at weapon groups rather than specific weapon proficiencies. "Shuriken" is possibly just the category name for small thrown weapons like throwing daggers, darts, and the like along with throwing stars and kunai. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080104

 

[Silvergriffon]

"Shuriken" is possibly just the category name for small thrown weapons like throwing daggers, darts, and the like along with throwing stars and kunai.

This is my opinion as well. And it makes sense, since star shaped shuriken are not even the most common shape (except in the movies). Most shuriken are shaped like throwing knives or spikes.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yes, but Acrobatics is unlikely to have a 'tumble' if there is a specific rogue power for that.

Imagine a rogue wanting to get past his enemies. He uses his tumble power and gets past them, and on the following round he wants to get back. Oh, wait. He can't. He can only use the ability once. I'm trying to rationalise why the limitation would make sense.

Pinotage

I see what your saying but because we don not know what the acrobatics skill entails he may still be able to tumble but, for example, have to make an opposed check or sumfink.
Tumble in 3E is overpowered, A LOT, doesn't take many ranks in Tumble before you can completely run rings around everybody.