D&D 4E The 4E Rogue...love it or hate it?

[hong]

Don't forget the two weapon fighter and the archer.

Huh? Those are fighter and ranger options.

 

[Mentat55]

Don't forget the two weapon fighter and the archer.

The two weapon fighter is basically just a flanker with more attacks, and in fact, flanking is the best way for a TWF rogue to lay down the hurt.

The archer is a curious rogue build -- challenging to bring sneak attack into play consistently without things like Hide in Plain Sight or improved invisibility.

 

[Steely Dan]

As the rogue (and barbarian) was the best designed class from the 3.5 PHB, IMO, I was hoping to see pretty much any other class, but yeah, I dig it.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

It is positively Nerfalicious! Sneak attack is finally made sane again. No more improved invisible TWF death hurricanes. Noticeable damage, but not so ridiculous it will make a fighter hang up his Zweihänder.

This more than anything else is my favorite bit. Sneak attack in 3e, especially once you started stacking in PrCs, quickly turned the rogue into Stabby McEncounterkiller. Unless, of course, the DM countered that with things that couldn't be critted, which in turn made the rogue player whine. Toning down sneak attack to manageable levels and then allowing rogues to sneak attack anything is a far better option IMHO.

I don't know enough about how the skill system works in 4e to make a judgement on that. I'm not REAL fond of static HP, but I can live with it. I suspect that the "menu A" thing isn't as restrictive as some people are knee-jerking about (but of course, I could be wrong on that front). I do, however, like the rogue powers.

Overall, however, I like it.

 

[Crashy75]

Any chance we could get a med response? I don't love it but I don't hate either.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

i dont like it myself just seems one sided to me i guess

 

[Pale Jackal]

I don't like Tumble being an ability instead of a skill, and I really don't like it being a per-encounter ability.

I would agree with you (well, actually, I suppose I should play 4E first then decide whether or not Tumble as an ability is best for balance or "fun".)

However: isn't Acrobatics = Tumble + Balance?

Maybe the "Tumble" utility skill is just an "uber-Tumble", since it didn't mention rolling... this makes even more sense if 4E is using Reflex saves for Tumble DC... and it could increase mobility to a certain extent: allowing the rogue to tumble out of a position where he's surrounded by enemies.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I like the Con score being added to HP at 1st level. That's as it is in my house rules, is perhaps why.

I don't like anything else about it - or what it implies about the system in general - that I've seen. And I've seen what there is to see, so far.

 

[Pssthpok]

Any chance we could get a med response? I don't love it but I don't hate either.

I like the armor and weapon proficiencies; it seems less categorized, which means that other classes can have far more curious lists.

I like the +2 to Reflex; makes sense and doesn't put the Reflex save head-and-shoulders above the rest.

I'm really curious about the 12+Con score, since that seems to me that a 1st-level rogue with a 14 Con would have 26 hp. From there, the static +5/level seems to imply that Con only comes into the equation once: at 1st level. That would be... interesting.

Healing surges... jury's out until we know what it does.

Trained skills looks fine; I like that 'Thievery' is a skill.

Nothing stands out about the Builds.

Class abilities...
-First strike: Seems neat having it as a class feature... does a fighter not gain combat advantage if he acts before his opponent?
-Tactics: Significant choice; I like it.
-Weapon talent: I can see people being real upset about the specificity of this. I think it fits, by and large, and can be modified to different tastes without too much damage to the system.
-Sneak attack: the best change yet.

The Powers...
By and large, I like these. But it gnaws at me that some of them get better at epic levels... I wouldn't like to see a repeat (or even a bump-in-the-rug) of the ELH's "somehow 21st is different" approach.

So, I like it, but I don't love it. There are bits that I wince at, but not enough to turn me off.

 

[Pinotage]

I can't seem to make up my mind about it. On the face of it it seems limiting and simple, and it's potentially difficult to visuallise a few of the powers. I keep asking questions like 'Why can't the rogue tumble more than once per encounter/day (whatever it is)?' etc. I think I need to think about it some more.

Pinotage