D&D General The 5e Ninja, would it be a class or a subclass?

[Li Shenron]

Back in 3e, Complete Adventurer had a 20-level Ninja class. If WoTC brought the Ninja class into 5e (for a possible 5e Kara-Tur setting? ), would it be its' own class or would it be a subclass of another class (such as the Monk or the Rogue)? And if it was its' own class, what would everyone like to see in it? Ditto for subclasses.

Even though the name is different, the Ninja has been in 5e since the start as the Monk subclass.

It would make sense to make a full Ninja class for a fantasy setting where the character concept is more prominent, and widespread enough for it to require further significant differentiation through its own subclasses. For example, in an oriental setting there could be both a Ninja and a Samurai base class (perhaps at such point even replacing the Fighter).

There is another aspect to consider which is the sort of "prestige vibe" that the concept of Ninja carries, meaning that in a lot of stories those who enter the path of Ninja need to be already somewhat advanced, which strides a bit with having 1st-level Ninjas. But this may vary depending on the fantasy setting own story, and in another setting being trained as ninjas since childhood might be the norm.

So I don't think one option is generally better than the other.

As a background though, I don't think it is appropriate. It doesn't fit with the original meaning of a background (what you do or did for a living), but admittedly this meaning is lost already since WotC messed up with lots of background variations. Still, a background is too small to capture the many facets of a Ninja.

 

[Clint_L]

I dunno, a shadow monk with poisoner and actor feats pretty much checks all the boxes. You got your stealth, grappling and striking skill, incredible speed and maneuverability, deflect attacks, evasion, stuns, some on-theme magical abilities, poison, impersonation. At higher levels they can run up walls and stuff like that. I don't see any big gaps in the build.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Why should this be necessary? As long as the player knows what it does its enough.

Its really just authoritorian fantasy of many GMs that they need to know what player classes do (in order to forbid it etc.)

The GM will learn what the class does when playing and might get surprised which can also be a form of joy.

It's not about control or authoritarian fantasies. It's about:

1. The fact that when I know a class and a less experienced player unfamiliar with it is trying to play it I can help them with it even when dealing with the myriad other things gumming up my DM brain. I can even spot when they are doing things that should be impossible for their class. This is not about "catching" players, it's about keeping them from accidentally breaking the game by honestly misunderstanding abilities, as almost every new player has at some point, and just generally keeping things on an even keel.
2. Once in a blue moon a character has something that truly breaks encounters with particular parameters. I don't want to rain on that parade, I want to figure out times when we can potentially showcase that ability, while also preserving other people's fun by not having it trivialize the most major encounters. Advance knowledge is really helpful here.

It's not like it's the end of the world to me if there was a ninja class, I just like having the total number of classes relatively manageable and would not like to see it get over, I don't know, 16 or so. I personally am not comfortable running a game until I've read through all the classes and gotten a rough feel for them, and at some point it becomes unmanageable. Having enough GMs in the world requires having a few of us willing to try to run games we've not yet actually played or at least have not played extensively, so they need to be digestable, and a game with 47 classes probaly isn't. Your mileage may vary.