Level Up (A5E) The Advanced Fighter

[CapnZapp]

I think this is mostly because many games never get to the point where fighters get a 3rd (or even 4th!) attack.

I agree that fighters are pretty good as is. I like the class personally, but I would still like to see something "combat" oriented to really set them "above and beyond" the other warriors in the combat pillar.

Quick thought: What if Fighters could make a weapon attack each round once they have Extra Attack, even if they didn't take the Attack action? If they take the attack action, they get their normal 2-4 attacks.

That's actually a valid argument. Getting one more attack than everybody else doesn't do you any good if you only get that long after the campaign has ended.

Pathfinder 2 gives the Fighter a +2 that no other warrior class can catch up to. Ever.

If A5E/LU wants to instead give "an extra attack" it should first decide on when paladins/barbarians/valor bards/rangers get their attacks, and then give each of those extra attacks to the Fighter early.

If every warrior gets a second attack at level 10 and a third attack at level 15, the way to benefit the Fighter isn't by giving him a fourth attack at level 20. Not only is that only a 33% increase, it only comes online at level 20. Abilities at very high levels should be completely bonkers, not well-calibrated and slightly boring!

It is by giving him the second attack at level 8, the third attack at maybe level 12, and then a fourth attack at maybe level 16 and something truly awesome like infinite attacks at level 20!

 

[DND_Reborn]

That's actually a valid argument. Getting one more attack than everybody else doesn't do you any good if you only get that long after the campaign has ended.

Pathfinder 2 gives the Fighter a +2 that no other warrior class can catch up to. Ever.

If A5E/LU wants to instead give "an extra attack" it should first decide on when paladins/barbarians/valor bards/rangers get their attacks, and then give each of those extra attacks to the Fighter early.

If every warrior gets a second attack at level 10 and a third attack at level 15, the way to benefit the Fighter isn't by giving him a fourth attack at level 20. Not only is that only a 33% increase, it only comes online at level 20. Abilities at very high levels should be completely bonkers, not well-calibrated and slightly boring!

It is by giving him the second attack at level 8, the third attack at maybe level 12, and then a fourth attack at maybe level 16 and something truly awesome like infinite attacks at level 20!

(emphasis mine)

I've thought about this for fighters as well-- a straight +2 to attack rolls above and beyond every thing else.

I agree completely that giving them additional attacks 1-2 levels before other warriors is a good way to go as well.

 

[Minigiant]

If A5E/LU wants to instead give "an extra attack" it should first decide on when paladins/barbarians/valor bards/rangers get their attacks, and then give each of those extra attacks to the Fighter early.

Not sure I agree.

I think the fighter should focus on Action Surge and Second Wind early.

The "Attack Divide" should come a Tier 3. Tier 3 is when characters become exceptional and can break reality by mundane means. Rangers get WW/Volley. Paladin's Smite gets better. Fighter's get a 3rd attack.

The problem with the 5e Fighter in Tier 2 is that it gets all its Base Fightery stuff at level 5: Extra Attack. Action Surge and Second Wind do not grow nor get expanded from level 3 through level 17. It's all subclass, Extra Attack,And Indomitable for 14 levels And Indomitable barely counts as it come solate and does so little.

I feel focusiing of Extra Attack and Fighting styles is thinking backwards. Design should be on Action Surge and Second Wind.

 

[Phoebasss]

A fighter with stronger exploration pillar = a Ranger
A fighter with stronger social pillar = a Bard
A fighter with stronger connection to the gods = Paladin
A fighter with stronger connection to the spirits = Barbarian

Yeah, I think we've missed the boat on making those into fighter subclasses, even if I think UA scout is a fine addition to most campaigns. I think fighter's subclasses should instead provide additional options in combat that other classes can't easily replicate. Which is what feats and battlemaster currently do. Honestly the way UA has gone where every subclass is essentially battlemaster with a different selection of options for superiority dice would be fine. I just don't want battlemaster to be the only fighter subclass with actual class mechanics.

 

[Phoebasss]

I've thought about this for fighters as well-- a straight +2 to attack rolls above and beyond every thing else.

I mean, they get this with archery, which does make them the best archers in the game. The problem is any class can take a negligible dip in fighter to get all the benefits of archery. So every effective ranger is a level 1 fighter as well. This is more a problem with 5e's multiclassing and frontloading though, and I don't know if its the fighter's job to solve that.

EDIT: I forgot rangers also get fighting style just a level later. Point still stands for bow rogue though, and honestly ranger probably shouldn't just get the same list of fighting styles fighter does but shorter, but that's a whole 'nother issue.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I mean, they get this with archery, which does make them the best archers in the game. The problem is any class can take a negligible dip in fighter to get all the benefits of archery. So every effective ranger is a level 1 fighter as well. This is more a problem with 5e's multiclassing and frontloading though, and I don't know if its the fighter's job to solve that.

I don't have an issue with frontloading classes and MCing in general. But yes, this fighter bonus would have to be worded in such a way so that if you MC into or out of fighter, you lose it.

 

[Phoebasss]

I don't have an issue with frontloading classes and MCing in general. But yes, this fighter bonus would have to be worded in such a way so that if you MC into or out of fighter, you lose it.

Fighting style should be a fighter thing, yeah. Arguably it should be the main fighter thing, with fighters getting to pick several of them over the course of leveling. This would require providing many more options for them, though, as was done in the post above.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Fighting style should be a fighter thing, yeah. Arguably it should be the main fighter thing, with fighters getting to pick several of them over the course of leveling. This would require providing many more options for them, though, as was done in the post above.

Sure, I commented before that I think fighters should keep getting fighting style like every 3-4 levels. Especially if we could up the number of style to 10-12 since many aren't complimentary (but that is fine with me).

 

[JohnSnow]

In my opinion, the best way to fix both the fighter and the "5-minute workday" is to fix combat, damage & healing, and the D&D power curve. Epic fantasy doesn't need it, as you can realize from all the threads going around saying things like "Aragorn (or Gandalf) was 5th level." The higher level spells are pretty fiddly and unnecessary. The simple fact that D&D has 4 levels of dead makes it more ridiculous than a visit to Miracle Max's in The Princess Bride...

Sorta Dead: only dead 10 days or less - requires Raise Dead (5th-level).
Kinda Dead: you have a body, they're not undead, and they've been dead less than a century - requires Resurrection (7th-level).
Mostly Dead: Has been dead more than a century, or no body - requires True Resurrection (9th-level).
All Dead - Died from old age or has been gone more than 2 centuries.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think this is mostly because many games never get to the point where fighters get a 3rd (or even 4th!) attack.

I think the hunter's feature where you gain a free action attack to use against a creature you did not target with you attack action, and the whirlwind/volley attack should have been fighter features.

I also think moving extra attacks at 9th and 17th level can make it more interesting for the fighter. Because Action Surge, while powerful on paper, isnt that cool before level 11 where you can sling 6 attacks in a round. At 2 attacks a round, while action surging, you can attack 4 times in a burst, once per rest, something a dual-wielding hunter or monk has been doing for little while now!

I think the ''hordebreaker'' attack could be given to the fighter at 2nd level and ''whirlwing/volley'' at level 9th: Indomitable is a pretty weak feature (1 re-roll per day? Really?), it could benefit from having something else to offer at that level.