D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D

[Willie the Duck]

The strong do what they will, the weak endure what they must ¯\(ツ)/¯

I'm not sure how you're going to enforce those responsibilities

No one is enforcing anything. People are advocating certain courses of actions.

This is the ten thousandth iteration of the same discussion on moderate-to-large message forum populated by a non-representatively obsessed subgroup of elfgame-players who want to spend more time thinking about and discussing said elfgames than they can reasonably spend playing it. We are almost inherently spinning our wheels. The only effect anything anyone says here has is in the ability to convince others present. However, since this is such a pointless endeavor, these calls to us not being able to enforce anything (or shrug character art, and the rest of the loldom lexicon) isn't actually a refutation of people continuing the discussion.

No - I very much believe it is a fact. The 'weak' are keenly aware of what they must endure and what they're powerful enough to change.

Who do you think the weak are in this?

 

[payn]

I find that their genuine-ness doesn't matter one way or the other.

So, its just all bad? There is no improvement?

 

[CleverNickName]

No - I very much believe it is a self-evident fact. The 'weak' are keenly aware of what they must endure and what they're powerful enough to change.

It might be more convenient for some people than others, but it is not less true because of it.

And here is where I leave the discussion.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

Who do you think the weak are in this?

I don't know - does that have any relevance on the principle?

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

No - I very much believe it is a self-evident fact. The 'weak' are keenly aware of what they must endure and what they're powerful enough to change.

It might be more convenient for some people than others, but it is not less true because of it.

You seem to cling to the strange idea that true and popular aren't the same thing. Where do you come from? The 18th century? Or worse, Ancient Greece?

 

[Filthy Lucre]

So, its just all bad? There is no improvement?

Just because someone acts out of self interest doesn't mean the thing they produce is bad. That's why I don't find their motivation to matter, just what they actually produce.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

And here is where I leave the discussion.

To me this is akin to being offended by someone telling you that cancer exists. "But cancer is BAD!" My telling you the truth of a matter does not cause the matter to be true/realized.

 

[Gradine]

I don't really think it's a world view so much as an observation. If you do not have power to change your circumstances, then you must endure them. Are you saying that statement is false?

I am saying that, systematically, the world has moved quite a bit further away from this "observation" than you seem to think it has. It has a ways to go, but it's changing, and most importantly, that's a good thing.

This is such an irritating thing to say. I made a statement that I believe to be true. I did not say that I believe that it is GOOD that it's true or that it morally licenses any behavior. Try and not read into statements.

I'm sorry, we're talking a lot about what should be, steps for change, etc., and you go and drop a quote from a historical mass murderer as a response. How am I supposed to take it? Are you saying that that "the strong do what the they, and the weak suffer what they must" is in fact, BAD? Because I've noticed you haven't done that, either. If you believe that it's true (again, it is not, but still), do you not also believe that it worth doing something to change it?

 

[payn]

Just because someone acts out of self interest doesn't mean the thing they produce is bad. That's why I don't find their motivation to matter, just what they actually produce.

Then, why did you bring it up?

 

[Filthy Lucre]

If you believe that it's true (again, it is not, but still),

You seem to be mistaking what is actual for what is possible.

Let's say that I'm robbing you at gun point and you have, as per premise, no way to stop me. I am 'strong' and you are 'weak'. Do you have an option other than 'endure'? The fact that people, broadly speaking, are not engaging in this behavior doesn't change the fact that if they DID do that, then you would not have an option but to 'endure'.

This is such a basic and uncontroversial point I have to assume people either don't understand it or are reading something into it.