D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D

[Filthy Lucre]

That statement shows a (fairly typical) miscomprehension of the issues. If you think the problem is that people are "offended" you don't actually understand the problem.

Can you define the problem for me in 1-3 sentences?

 

[BookTenTiger]

And this is well and good, but not a single thing you have said here, has anything to do with D&D being a 'racism simulator.'

Okay.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

Nobody defines words here. We all just argue over phrases and intent, without ever agreeing on what is being discussed anyway while people sling insults at those they dont believe are 'progressive' (what does THAT mean) enough.

Lmao I'll be shocked if you don't (and consequently me also) get chastised for that remark. But it's obviously true.

 

[Scribe]

Lmao I'll be shocked if you don't (and consequently me also) get chastised for that remark. But it's obviously true.

 

[Umbran]

The creators of and audience for role playing games was a lot less diverse back in the 70s than it is now.

At some point, that fails to be an excuse, though. When a bunch of white guys make a game for themselves, they will not attract a diverse audience. Having done that, using the lack of a diverse audience as a reason to not create for that audience becomes self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Lyxen]

At some point, that fails to be an excuse, though. When a bunch of white guys make a game for themselves, they will not attract a diverse audience. Having done that,

Doesn't the fact that they have done it and so attracted a much wider audience show that the game was, actually, fairly inclusive to start with ? Because if it was not already quite inclusive, how did so many people become attracted to it outside of it original audience ?

 

[Filthy Lucre]

At some point, that fails to be an excuse, though. When a bunch of white guys make a game for themselves, they will not attract a diverse audience. Having done that, using the lack of a diverse audience as a reason to not create for that audience becomes self-fulfilling prophecy.

Do people even have a formal responsibility to be inclusive?

In my heart I know that the reason that WotC/Paizo are prioritizing inclusivity is because the market demands it, not because it has inherent value to them. Let's not get things twisted about what motivates a corporation with shareholders. So, let's not pretend that if the zeitgeist was going the other way that WotC wouldn't follow.

 

[Gradine]

They're not completely ahistorical though. There may very well have been people saying these things, but they weren't part of the mainstream discussion. And because those voices weren't part of the mainstream discussion, it would have been unusual to hear that someone should have collaborated with people of color while working on D&D.

I wonder why those voices weren't part of the mainstream discussion. If only there were some common characteristic between them, that our cultural systems would have marginalized and silenced, that could explain that...

The creators of and audience for role playing games was a lot less diverse back in the 70s than it is now.

The question, glaring in big bright letters, is once again: why? Because there are definitive reasons as to why that was, and while they may not have been intentional, they sure as hell weren't an accident either.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Can you define the problem for me in 1-3 sentences?

1. A lot of fiction (including games) use tropes...perhaps innocently...that are effective at evoking fear/revulsion/hatred of other people.
2. Those same effective tropes have been used over the centuries to justify oppression/slavery/genocide
3. People who belong to groups that are either currently, or have very recently been, the target of oppression/slavery/genocide, feel unwelcome in a community that thinks those tropes are all just fun and games.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

1. A lot of fiction (including games) use tropes...perhaps innocently...that are effective at evoking fear/revulsion/hatred of other people.
2. Those same effective tropes have been used over the centuries to justify oppression/slavery/genocide
3. People who belong to groups that are either currently, or have very recently been, the target of oppression/slavery/genocide, feel unwelcome in a community that thinks those tropes are all just fun and games.

Whose responsibility is it to solve this problem?