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The awaken spell: playing God?

Saeviomagy

Adventurer
Sejs said:
A horses lack of digits says they can't use tools. As for characer class levels - they'd have class levels about as frequently as the majority of any population would have class levels. Which isn't often. I agree that given their lack of manipulators, those that -did- have class levels would tend heavily toward spellcasting classes.
Actually they wouldn't. For instance, you probably wouldn't get any wizards, because they've got noone to learn wizardry from, and no spells to learn. And they can't turn the pages of the books.
Hell, even sorcery, or becoming a cleric would be problematic: by the rules, both require hands to hold components and focii, perform somatic components and no, their mouth won't count - they're already using that to speak loudly and clearly with.

I'm afraid that horses are much more likely to become rogues or fighters or the like.

They're certainly not going to overcome the natural human population over the course of a few generations. Win their freedom? Perhaps. Survive? Probably. Control the plains? nope.
But again it just doesn't hang together. Being able to cast Mage Hand a couple times per day just doesn't come anywhere close to competing with an entire population that can manipulate heavier objects with greater control at will.
BTB, they're not casting mage hand at all. It requires you to point a finger.
 

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Kaleon Moonshae

When TrueNight falls
Saeviomagy said:
Actually they wouldn't. For instance, you probably wouldn't get any wizards, because they've got noone to learn wizardry from, and no spells to learn. And they can't turn the pages of the books.
Hell, even sorcery, or becoming a cleric would be problematic: by the rules, both require hands to hold components and focii, perform somatic components and no, their mouth won't count - they're already using that to speak loudly and clearly with.

I'm afraid that horses are much more likely to become rogues or fighters or the like.

They're certainly not going to overcome the natural human population over the course of a few generations. Win their freedom? Perhaps. Survive? Probably. Control the plains? nope.

BTB, they're not casting mage hand at all. It requires you to point a finger.

That's actually something that has been addressed in a few books like savage species. There are ways around those things and they are natural to animals with those limitations. Look at some fo the intelligent animals out there and see how they get by with it. You also have the fact that money can buy things. They have been raised with the idea of being traded and such so they may very well trade off some of their children for supplies or magic items. All they would need for sorcerer is the eschew material component. The somantic component is specific to the individual race and they would do some of the same things that krynshar and blink dog sorcerers would do such as use their tail as a somantic component or rear up and use their front hooves or even dance in a certain pattern as they run. Once again human limitations are being used and part of the challenge with awakened animals is figuring out how to work with those. I agree that there wouldn't be any wizards. Clerics are even a different matter, their material component *alot* of the time is a focus which could be anything the horse would normally have. The focus of the spell would porbably be decided by the god so it would work with them. Then there are psions and such which I don't use but are standard. The point is you still can't just *rule* them out like was originally done. Would it take work? yes, but considering we were talking bout horse nomads you would have a lot of similarities. The nomads aren't going to have many wizards either, they are not by nature a studying type of demographic.

Also, especially with sorcerers...what else are they going to spend those feats on except things like still spell, silent spell and the like. Yeah they're going to be less powerful than the enemy, but when you take away the enemies natural advantage (horseback) things are slightly more level since those same warriors are no longer able to use things like mounted combat, charge, and such.
 
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Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
Saeviomagy said:
Hell, even sorcery, or becoming a cleric would be problematic: by the rules, both require hands to hold components and focii, perform somatic components and no, their mouth won't count - they're already using that to speak loudly and clearly with.

Take five druid levels first, and Natural Spell.

They still can't cast... unless they wildshape. They can wildshape into horses (well... ponies, until 8th level), and then they can use their hooves to cast spells :) And there's nothing to stop them using Natural Spell to cast sorcerer spells, as long as they're wildshaped...

(I had a DM who allowed my Awakened Horse Druid cohort to use Natural Spell even when he was just in his natural form, but strictly that's a house rule :) )

-Hyp.
 
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Kaleon Moonshae

When TrueNight falls
Hypersmurf said:
[blink]

Do you mean a wheelbarrow?

-Hyp.


see? I stand by what I said, I have trouble with things like that. And everywhere I've ever seen it spelt (intentional there) was wheelborrow or wheelbarrel, specially since many here are made from barrels (here being oklahoma where I grew up). I have never claimed to be a decent speller and have always found it trying when people bash people for not spelling things right when obviously they know the meaning behind the words. It's like making fun of a dyxlexic (yes i spelled that wrong too) for writing things backwards. If you think that not being able to spell is just laziness then read up on some fo the research that is being done linking it to the brain just like 'lexia. Could I paste everything into a spell checker before I post? Yes I could, but since I am at work and am keeping my waste of time down to a minimum that limits what I can say in the time I have and I feel the idea is more important than appeasing people with spelling.

just my 2 cents and no offense meant
 


Kaleon Moonshae

When TrueNight falls
ruleslawyer said:
Actually, it's wheelbarrow. Sorry to be even more obnoxious...

Do people really say "calvary"? I've never heard that...

actually that's what hyp said;P reread his post. Yes, people say calvery, i do, it's mostly a coloquial thing (sp)
 

Saeviomagy

Adventurer
Kaleon Moonshae said:
see? I stand by what I said, I have trouble with things like that. And everywhere I've ever seen it spelt (intentional there) was wheelborrow or wheelbarrel, specially since many here are made from barrels (here being oklahoma where I grew up). I have never claimed to be a decent speller and have always found it trying when people bash people for not spelling things right when obviously they know the meaning behind the words. It's like making fun of a dyxlexic (yes i spelled that wrong too) for writing things backwards. If you think that not being able to spell is just laziness then read up on some fo the research that is being done linking it to the brain just like 'lexia.

Sorry. No excuses. What you're trying to say here is "I know I'm wrong, but you suck!". It's pretty much the definition of ignorance.

If you're wrong and someone points it out to you, and you know it to be true, accept it, learn from it and become a better person. And then attempt to teach it to others.

That's actually something that has been addressed in a few books like savage species. There are ways around those things and they are natural to animals with those limitations.
My point of view would be that they're natural to races that have developed magic independantly, not necessarily to artificially awakened races.

I realise you love the "armies of awakened horses destroying civilisation" angle, but without some serious GM fiat, it's not going to work. Awakened horses will have the same ratio of pc to npc classes as humans, will have the same issues learning spells that a human reincarnated as a horse would, and are likely to spend most of their time adjusting to this, rather than raising armies and razing nomadic settlements.

Oh, and they're unlikely to have a horse god unless the formation of a god just requires 30 or so followers.

Oh, and about 'trading their young'. Where do they hold the money?
 

the Jester

Legend
Awakened horse psions, wilders and psychic warriors would make for a terrifying force. Hell, there's an encounter in a certain module from a certain feline buccaneer that we all know and love that involves psionic horses... and it's awesome!

Psionics have the advantage of not requiring components (except occasionally an xp component). Psychic warrior horses would be absolutely terrifying enemies with their various psionic attack, damage and defense enhancers. Wilders and psions could combine the best parts of a sorcerer with the horse's natural combat and movement abilities; it would be pretty easy for an awakened horse psion to stay out of melee while he blew up the hapless horseless horsemen during the Great Plains Uprising.
 

Gez

First Post
Cavalry: cavale, cabale, caballero, cheval, chevalier, chevalerie, chivalry...


As to why awakening animals is compatible with the druid's natural slant: because some specimen need to have more powers than the average sample, if they are to efficiently preserve balance from interference. The same way that a druid is wiser and more powerful than the average commoner, some animals must be elevated to an awakened rank so as to be able to watch wisely and intelligently over their own domains; and so that they could, if needs be, detect troubles affecting their kin and alert the druid, then assist him in solving the problem.

Awakened animals and plants are supposed to be exceptions rather than flock. Just like druids themselves.
 

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