D&D 5E The Bard is...
Jester David
Hero
There'a an okay bard in there somewhere.
One of my disappointment is the bard is really a 3/4 caster class, not a half caster. But I imagine they could emphasize that with a spellcaster subclass. And the spell choices are also a little lacking.
There's also lot of pretty weak and lackluster powers in the bard. And powers like the dispel magic that don't seem particularly bard-ish and are really just filler options.
But my real problem is the poor choice of subclasses we're given.
There's so-so enchanter bard that focuses on manipulation and the warlord bard.
But we're missing the non-warlord support bard and the charismatic diplomancer bard. The pure support bards. Because they wanted to give 4e fans a little warlord love, we get a bard class that's less bardic. We don't get a bard, we get a warlord and a poor man's enchanter.
One of my disappointment is the bard is really a 3/4 caster class, not a half caster. But I imagine they could emphasize that with a spellcaster subclass. And the spell choices are also a little lacking.
There's also lot of pretty weak and lackluster powers in the bard. And powers like the dispel magic that don't seem particularly bard-ish and are really just filler options.
But my real problem is the poor choice of subclasses we're given.
There's so-so enchanter bard that focuses on manipulation and the warlord bard.
But we're missing the non-warlord support bard and the charismatic diplomancer bard. The pure support bards. Because they wanted to give 4e fans a little warlord love, we get a bard class that's less bardic. We don't get a bard, we get a warlord and a poor man's enchanter.
It feels to me like a class that was designed to fill specific gaps in some overall scheme, rather than something designed organically. Here are a few reasons I was underwhelmed.
1. Why are the weapons identical to the rogue?
2. Why are there no class skills?
3. Tools: three "musical instruments" but no constraint on what counts. Are Viola and violin the same or different? It's a needless complication that is left unexplained. (Voice, dance, etc. seemingly excluded, because...)
4. Implement. spellcasting bonus when you hold an instrument during spellcasting. So, then, explicitly not dance or voice. Do you just need to hold? Most instruments are two-handed to play; does that exclude shields? [no native shield proficiencies, but they are available from feat or multi classing].*
5. Expertise. Identical to Rogue. No sense of synergy.
6. Jack of All Trades. With Expertise and Bardic Knowledge, there is so much helping bards with skill checks. The Bard is a better skill monkey than the rogue.
7. Colleges are fine, but a bit uninspired.
-->"Wit" makes repartee a roll instead of role-play.
-->"Valor" (I feel) hasn't thought through the intersection of martial weapons and the musical implement.
* To be fair, they have applied implements irregularly across the class, with (and this makes it worse) the surface appearance of regularity. How many notice that Clerics can have thier implement around their neck, or on their shield? They've got a good mechanic, but they're too intent for everyone to be able to use it. So what (last packet) was a great addition, where a spellcaster needs to choose to wield an implement or a weapon in combat in order to get the benefit, has been watered down, meaning that the bonus is always going to be there. It's no longer a character strategy.
1. Why are the weapons identical to the rogue?
2. Why are there no class skills?
3. Tools: three "musical instruments" but no constraint on what counts. Are Viola and violin the same or different? It's a needless complication that is left unexplained. (Voice, dance, etc. seemingly excluded, because...)
4. Implement. spellcasting bonus when you hold an instrument during spellcasting. So, then, explicitly not dance or voice. Do you just need to hold? Most instruments are two-handed to play; does that exclude shields? [no native shield proficiencies, but they are available from feat or multi classing].*
5. Expertise. Identical to Rogue. No sense of synergy.
6. Jack of All Trades. With Expertise and Bardic Knowledge, there is so much helping bards with skill checks. The Bard is a better skill monkey than the rogue.
7. Colleges are fine, but a bit uninspired.
-->"Wit" makes repartee a roll instead of role-play.
-->"Valor" (I feel) hasn't thought through the intersection of martial weapons and the musical implement.
* To be fair, they have applied implements irregularly across the class, with (and this makes it worse) the surface appearance of regularity. How many notice that Clerics can have thier implement around their neck, or on their shield? They've got a good mechanic, but they're too intent for everyone to be able to use it. So what (last packet) was a great addition, where a spellcaster needs to choose to wield an implement or a weapon in combat in order to get the benefit, has been watered down, meaning that the bonus is always going to be there. It's no longer a character strategy.
The Myopic Sniper
Hero
It felt like a first draft using the other classes in their current configuration as templates. I expect future iterations to be better refined, I just wish that we would have had a couple of public playtests left since it would probably be one of the harder core classes to meet people's general expecations.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
Met my expectations in general. But needs a lot of fine tuning.
positive:
has damage spells
has decent combat proficiencies
songs are decent
negative:
low hp
restricted to very few known spells
missing chain armor and shields in the valor subclass
positive:
has damage spells
has decent combat proficiencies
songs are decent
negative:
low hp
restricted to very few known spells
missing chain armor and shields in the valor subclass
Kobold Avenger
Legend
I posted this before in the thread about the packet being released, but it's buried under a lot of other posts.
-It seems like the Bard is the only class with only 4 ability increases/feats. They need to change that, as it was my criticism of every class that had only 4 last session.
-Bardic music only once per encounter, and you can't choose a different one later in the encounter if you stop performing, seems simple enough. Also I noticed the refresh is after 10 minutes, but a short rest is still 1 hour.
-So far the Bard Colleges are good for a core Bard, but I feel there needs to be a bit more variance between them. One of them would be a more spellcastery Bard, could be something that should be toyed with.
-I miss the ability to use Suggestion on fascinated targets with Bardic music, the College of Wit really needs that brought back from the old Bard abilities.
-Save profs of Intelligence and Charisma, I feel there's a problem with those 2 saves since they're so far the less commonly used ones. Granted Bards should be proficient in Charisma saves. That leaves Int saves. I think it might be better if different subclasses grant a different secondary save prof.
-I miss Bards getting 6th level spells, I know that being half casters is appropriate for most cases of the Bard, but some could be 3/4 or maybe full casters.
-"Implements", I don't approve of only musical instruments offering spellcasting bonuses. What if the Bard is a vocalist or a dancer? I think at least wands should be added. And doesn't that just make it odd for College of Valor Bards, with a sword in one hand and a lute in the other.
-Countercharm, Improved Dispel and Jack of All Trades I approve of. Battle magic is good, but it's something I feel could also be College of Valor only, if something is needed to make other colleges have more options to input later.
-The extra dice of damage for Call to Battle is probably easier to remember than, +2 I had to call out for the Inspire Courage all the time when I played one.
- Magical Secrets is something I feel a Bard should get at a lower level, starting with just 1 new non-bard spell learned, and gaining more as the Bard levels up.
-College of Valor is good Bardic version of a Warlord, but I feel if any subclass of the Bard deserves a d8 hit die, it's that one.
-Song of Rest is something I feel could be moved the the greater Bard class.
-I don't think the last abilities of both subclasses should be a free spell known, plus a free casting. I feel it should be another bardic music use, though maybe something that only happens once per performance.
-It seems like the Bard is the only class with only 4 ability increases/feats. They need to change that, as it was my criticism of every class that had only 4 last session.
-Bardic music only once per encounter, and you can't choose a different one later in the encounter if you stop performing, seems simple enough. Also I noticed the refresh is after 10 minutes, but a short rest is still 1 hour.
-So far the Bard Colleges are good for a core Bard, but I feel there needs to be a bit more variance between them. One of them would be a more spellcastery Bard, could be something that should be toyed with.
-I miss the ability to use Suggestion on fascinated targets with Bardic music, the College of Wit really needs that brought back from the old Bard abilities.
-Save profs of Intelligence and Charisma, I feel there's a problem with those 2 saves since they're so far the less commonly used ones. Granted Bards should be proficient in Charisma saves. That leaves Int saves. I think it might be better if different subclasses grant a different secondary save prof.
-I miss Bards getting 6th level spells, I know that being half casters is appropriate for most cases of the Bard, but some could be 3/4 or maybe full casters.
-"Implements", I don't approve of only musical instruments offering spellcasting bonuses. What if the Bard is a vocalist or a dancer? I think at least wands should be added. And doesn't that just make it odd for College of Valor Bards, with a sword in one hand and a lute in the other.
-Countercharm, Improved Dispel and Jack of All Trades I approve of. Battle magic is good, but it's something I feel could also be College of Valor only, if something is needed to make other colleges have more options to input later.
-The extra dice of damage for Call to Battle is probably easier to remember than, +2 I had to call out for the Inspire Courage all the time when I played one.
- Magical Secrets is something I feel a Bard should get at a lower level, starting with just 1 new non-bard spell learned, and gaining more as the Bard levels up.
-College of Valor is good Bardic version of a Warlord, but I feel if any subclass of the Bard deserves a d8 hit die, it's that one.
-Song of Rest is something I feel could be moved the the greater Bard class.
-I don't think the last abilities of both subclasses should be a free spell known, plus a free casting. I feel it should be another bardic music use, though maybe something that only happens once per performance.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
The spell list is also mostly good, but I feel there needs to be a little bit of spells that are unique to Bards. Though that tends to be problematic since Bards had very little in the way of unique Bard spells before, they pretty well just took anything from the Enchantment School with some Illusion. Some of the Bard at-wills from 4e could warrant being converted and added, along with some of the stand-outs in the 4e list. If there was a 3e splatbook Bard spell that I felt that stood out, it was the Improvisation spell which used a floating bonus that could be assigned each round, but I wouldn't know how that one would work in 5e with the de-emphasis on bonuses.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
On that subject I thought a situation that spring up as a result, roughly inspired by a Bard I played... WARNING really crude innuendo below...
Player: He has proficiency in flute, he gets his bonus for this. What do you think he does with the male party members all the time.
DM: But is he holding his flute?
Player: Depends on how you define "hold", but it's always on him right with his pants.
DM: But can he play his own flute in this situation? I doubt he's that flexible.
tuxgeo
Adventurer
The Bard is . . .
It's a start toward a rewarding Bard class -- but only a start.
I agree that a sample list of available musical instruments would be useful; previous editions mentioned some of them, such as drum, flute, harp, horn, lute, lyre, and woodwind in 4E; there was a "yarting" mentioned in 2E that the god Oghma played; and hand-bells or chimes might be good additions, or possibly even maracas and castanets.
How about "songblades?" Too early yet? Few bards are going to enter melee wielding a lute.
I think the 5E Bard could use something a little better than simple Leather at 1st Level. "Light armor" included Studded Leather and Chain Shirt in 3E.
Also, Shields: 3E and 4E Bards got shield proficiency, though 2E Bards did not.
The "Bardic Performance" feature is nice. I would like to see a few other such performances described; but Call to Battle and Inspire Competence are a good beginning. (I disregard Countercharm; I'm not sure why I do.)
Cantrips? I'm OK with that, but I find it a little strange that the Bard gets Cantrips when the Paladin and the Ranger do not. (Perhaps that comes from the Power Sources in 4E: the Bard in 4E is Arcane, but the Paladin and Ranger are much more weapon-dependent. However, why does the Bard not get an attack cantrip? The Cleric and Mage both do. . . .)
I think the Bard needs at least one more Ability Score Improvement or Feat. It's a long way from 4th to 10th level.
"Magical Secrets" seems wasted. That's a career-capstone? I could see something else, such as "Rock Star," or "Poet Laureate," or "Legend of the Stage" as a good capstone.
Maybe "Magical Secrets" could be broken up into little bits and scattered throughout the Bardic class progression table? Learn one Secret at 6th Level (only a Cantrip or 1st-level spell), another one at 9th Level (only a Cantrip or a 1st- or 2nd-level spell), etc.
The Colleges need much more work. This is a start; but they've been at the Clerical Domains/Deities for months now, so the Bard is still far behind in terms of development. (I did expect that.)
It's a start toward a rewarding Bard class -- but only a start.
I agree that a sample list of available musical instruments would be useful; previous editions mentioned some of them, such as drum, flute, harp, horn, lute, lyre, and woodwind in 4E; there was a "yarting" mentioned in 2E that the god Oghma played; and hand-bells or chimes might be good additions, or possibly even maracas and castanets.
How about "songblades?" Too early yet? Few bards are going to enter melee wielding a lute.
I think the 5E Bard could use something a little better than simple Leather at 1st Level. "Light armor" included Studded Leather and Chain Shirt in 3E.
Also, Shields: 3E and 4E Bards got shield proficiency, though 2E Bards did not.
The "Bardic Performance" feature is nice. I would like to see a few other such performances described; but Call to Battle and Inspire Competence are a good beginning. (I disregard Countercharm; I'm not sure why I do.)
Cantrips? I'm OK with that, but I find it a little strange that the Bard gets Cantrips when the Paladin and the Ranger do not. (Perhaps that comes from the Power Sources in 4E: the Bard in 4E is Arcane, but the Paladin and Ranger are much more weapon-dependent. However, why does the Bard not get an attack cantrip? The Cleric and Mage both do. . . .)
I think the Bard needs at least one more Ability Score Improvement or Feat. It's a long way from 4th to 10th level.
"Magical Secrets" seems wasted. That's a career-capstone? I could see something else, such as "Rock Star," or "Poet Laureate," or "Legend of the Stage" as a good capstone.
Maybe "Magical Secrets" could be broken up into little bits and scattered throughout the Bardic class progression table? Learn one Secret at 6th Level (only a Cantrip or 1st-level spell), another one at 9th Level (only a Cantrip or a 1st- or 2nd-level spell), etc.
The Colleges need much more work. This is a start; but they've been at the Clerical Domains/Deities for months now, so the Bard is still far behind in terms of development. (I did expect that.)
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