The Batman Thread

I dont believe batman is anywhere near as powerfull as 20th level ...and I dont think just because he has a code makes him lawful.... after all he breaks just as many laws as most of the villains.... Neutral good is about right. That said this has been talked to death on various message boards and no progress is ever made...people have their own ideas of batman and dont like to change them.
 

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Doesn't matter what alignment Batman is. Comics don't follow the DnD code. Tends to make his alignment fluctuate a bit.

Batman has always wanted to do good, which makes him NG. But he takes the law into his own hands, and defies the 'establishment' of sorts (GCPD, namely). That makes him, to a certain extent, CG.

Yet, we've seen Bats sometimes go completely nuts and not care for anything but the law. LN.

Whatever he is, he definitely ain't LG. As he said numerous times to the JLA: I'm not a joiner.

Besides LG is strictly Superman's domain.

As for the Batman family, that's a different story. I'd put Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Alfred Pennyworth, Barbara Gordon and Cassandra Kane as LG. They do good and they're loyal to Batman. But, since they (sometimes) go against the establishment, they're somewhat NG/CG too.

Huntress and Azrael I'd put in the CG/CN category. Basically good people, but morally dubious.
 


Mercule said:
Having a personal code and being Chaotic are not mutually exclusive. I've got this old Dragon with a 6-8 page article discussing 1E Barbarians (also chaotic) and their deep set codes of honor. The short of it is that Chaotics can be just as honor-bound as Lawfuls. Their honor is just a bit more personal.

Okay, well, just for clarity- IMHI being bound to a code is the one thing a chaotic cannot be. A chaotic character supports and attempts to maximize personal freedom. Being bound to a thing (especially a static code of honor) limits your personal freedom. Thus, the two are incompatible.

You, of course, are free to play it as you wish.
 

Batman would be an epic character, and I would place him far above 20th level. He is on equal standing with beings that have godlike power, without any special talents of his own. The level of skill he possesses must be penultimate in order for him to achieve what he does.
 

To go away from the alignment a little. I think you have his charisma far too low. Honest. He's always (or most always) on the top of the Gotham's Most Eligible Bachelors list. He runs a huge corporation, and his folks are loyal to him. Then again he is sometimes seen as a bore.
I think a 14 charisma is low.
I'd have:
S 14 (better then normal but not a fantastic score)
D 20 (he always dodges the thrown gun ;)
C 18 (recovers from gun shots really quick)
I 18 (hmmm. Maybe higher? He is damn smart and figures out everything)
W 16 (again maybe higher. He chooses correct actions probably 90% of the time)
C 16 (Reasons above)
And I'd probably stick with the monk/rogue and drop any fighter.

As for his level, well that would depend on which issue you read. Dark Kinght = epic. First issues = 10-12 level. Most recent cartoon series = 16-20.

And now back to your regularly scheduled alignment debate.
-cpd
 

O Gawd help me I'm posting to this( damn you Snoweel it's YOUR fault !;)) ....

If you are going to put Bats into D20 modern you need to have his ALLiANCES right ! Namely[ Law, Gotham City, Good] in that order,D20 Modern doesn't have alignments.
 

14 for strength?
Batman can clean jerk 450 and picks guys up by the lapels all the time. He might not be a 20 but hes stronger than 14.

I would also think Batman would be slighty stronger than he is agile (dex) or even about equal in both. Nightwing is definitely the more agile of the two. And somebody like Lady Shiva would be in a whole category by herself.
 
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As far as Batman goes, arguments can be made based on two clauses in the PHB that describe his behavior.

LG: "[He] combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly."
-Perfect description of Batman, however...

NG: "He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates (e.g. JLA/Commissioner Gordon), but does not feel beholden to them."
-Clearly, this describes the Dark Knight, as well.

Ergo, the only conclusion one might draw is that he does not fit the DND alignment system perfectly, as previously observed. However, I would personally classify him as an extraordinarially dedicated Neutral Good individual.

As for his class levels, using the current Batman as a mold, he most assuredly enters the Epic levels. As a member of the JLA, composed mainly of Demi-Deity level characters (in my opinion), one must certainly be at a high level to sit at the "round table."

Thus, I would most likely argue for a build similar to Monk 10/Rogue 20. His fighting prowess matched only by a few characters in the DC Universe, and most other comic book universes. His mastery of the stealthy arts, in addition to his vast knowledge of a wide variety of subjects, necessitates a tremendous dedication to the Rogue class, with possible arguments for classes such as the Shadowdancer or Thief-Acrobat (though I feel pure Rogue is most appropriate). Interestingly enough, if one were to go with a LG take on the Batman, his dedication to justice and personal conviction, as well as sense of self, might necesitate 2 to 3 levels of Paladin. To be sure, Batman can indeed "Smite Evil." Further, increases to saves, (self) healing w/ lay on hands and immunity to fear can represent his juggurnaut-like perseverence, his recouperative powers (I mean, his back was broken!) and his unwavering cool.

Since I simply do not wish to write up all his skills, I will end with my opinions on his abilities.

Strength: 18
-Quite simply, this is as strong as humans can be. Batman, through force of will or raw muscle, is a paradigm for humanity. Ergo, his strength is the maximum for humans.

Dexterity: 18
-I would place Grayson, as the best acrobat in the DC universe, as possibly above the "peak" established by DND. Really, Batman dodges everything. He throws Batarangs with uncanny precision. Basically, place him 1-2 pts below Grayson, wherever you think that might be.

Constitution: 20
-Batman's been stabbed, burned, drowned, broken, poisoned, shot, and even temporarially killed (heart restarted). He doesn't die. Plain and simple. His constitution is, like many comic book characters, above human. Like the proverbial cockroach, Wayne's indomitable will will ensure he lives for a long, long time.

Intelligence: 18-20
-This one's tougher. Batman's IQ was reported by writers to be around 200. That's pretty freakishly high. However, depending how you convert IQs to Int, if you do at all, this one's a little subjective. I would tend to go for 20, but that's just me. There is very, very little he does not know.

Wisdom: 18
-Indomitable will, incredible leaps of intution. I would put this higher, but I am of the persuasion that Batman should have above 20's for most mental abilities. Don't want to get flamed for that :)

Charisma: 20's
-Scary. No one screws w/ Batman. Plus, when it comes to sense of self, Batman's got it down. Highest Charisma in DC universe, bar none, I would have to say.

Hope someone finds my rambling interesting. Please, comments and criticism welcome.

Cheers,
Billiarmus
 

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