The Batman Thread

[Chasmodai]

Since we're posting stats, I figure I'd do a little comparison between Bats and my favorite DC character: AzBats (that's Azrael to the uninitiated. Sure his book has been nixed, but I still think he's the coolest.)

Batman
Str 16
He's strong, but not that strong. I'd put Batman somewhere along the lines of the Ultimate Warrior (ol skool WWF indeed).

Dex 20
Is there any doubt?

Con 18
Yeah, Bats is basically embodies physical perfection. He's tough. He can take a blow from Superman/Killer Croc/Bane/insert Str 20+ character here and jump right back up.

Wis 16
Stubborn, canny, wise. I don't put an 18 here because Batman has slight psychological problems concerning his alter ego Bruce Wayne.

Int 20
Sharpest human mind in the DC multiverse.

Cha 18
He basically oozes personality and presence. And Bruce Wayne is one of the most handsome men on the planet.

Azrael
Str 18
He's been experimented on since he was in his mother's womb. This man pulled two unconscious people up a cliff while climbing with one hand.

Dex 20
Faster, more agile and definitely better reflexes than Batman, if you've ever seen any of their battles. The animal genes give him an advantage too.

Con 20
He was shot several times at point blank range and walked away feeling itchy. Interesting fact, he's been declared clinically dead.

(Alright, so maybe Azrael is the embodiment of physical perfection. Or maybe I'm just biased.)

Wis 14
Not too good in this department. The System doesn't help either. Frequently makes bad judgement calls, is argumentative, stubborn and brash. This score should probably be lower, but I'm keeping stat increases in mind.

Int 16
Computer geek. His |337 computer skillz are second only to Oracle's.

Cha 12
Shy nerd-boy with bad social skills. He simply has a lot of ranks in Intimidation. Follower, not a leader.

Yep, that's my 2 silver pieces worth. Whaddya think??

 

[Trickstergod]

I'll try to keep this brief, as arguing over just how any non-D&D character is statted out (alignment and otherwise) is generally an act in futility. Ask me, and I'd personally peg the Dark Knight as Chaotic Good, but ultimately, while I do believe a well-constructed argument can convince a few people, this isn't one of those cases where I feel it's worthwhile. A few points, however...

1) A code of conduct is not restricted to being Lawful. Good has a code of conduct as well, and it could be argued all alignments have certain codes of conduct - though it might be a bit difficult to argue that for a Chaotic Neutral or Evil individual. It still remains, however, that Chaotic Good individuals have a code of conduct, ideals and standards that they adhere to. I'd even say part of what defines Chaotic Good is this: "The law doesn't work, so I'm forced to take things into my own hands to right wrongs. It'd be great if that weren't the case, but it is." Just like Lawful Good could be, in part, defined by this: "It would be great if people could be trusted to get along and work together peacefully, but they can't. So we make laws for everybodies benefit." Both would (or could) be accepting of a Lawful or Chaotic society if they worked, but neither believes that the opposing idealogy does work.

2) This is actually what encouraged me to post in the first place: a 14, low? On a scale of 3-18, where a 3 means nearly incapable of supporting ones self without assistance, and an 18 means an Einstein, Olympic champion, or world leader, a 14 is pretty damn good. I'd say a 13-15 Charisma is the "average" for successful businessmen, diplomats, and motivational speakers (was reaching for a third example). Any higher and you begin reaching into the arena of the creme de la creme of the world. A 16 Charisma seems decent for your average world leader, while an 18 is the sort of person that can move worlds with their words. Someone who has 14's across the board ranks up there with someone who has so-so statistics, then a 16-18, as that plethora of 14's means that when, say, Charisma fails, Intelligence is there to back it up, and when that fails, common sense (Wisdom) kicks in. As for other stats, realize a Strength 15 can bench a good 400 or so pounds.

While there is, of course, a little leeway in the Ability Increase department - one could argue that the best of the best have a 20, or, if you're really feeling froggy, a 23 - it still stands that a 14 is damn good, and when you have a bunch of them, it makes the individual even more stand out than someone who has really only one good stat, since that individual has weaknesses that can be exploited.

All right. Not particularly brief. Oh well. Anyway, a 14 isn't low - while it may not be the greatest by itself, when it has a lot of other equally decent numbers to support it, none of them need to be a 16, or 18 - at least, when you're not talking about save DC's or bonus spells so much as tossing thugs around and being a successful millionaire with a handsome face.

Mmm. Can of worm.

 

[Valiantheart]

Well this is turning out pretty fun despite all the people trying to be serious. How about Bane:


Strength 22 (28): Bane is damn near as strong as human beings can possibly be. When he was pumping venom he was stronger than humanly possible.

Dexterity 14: For a man 6'9'' inches tall and 300 pounds, Bane can move incredibly fast and agile.

Constitution 20: Bane is a wall of muscle. His training has taught him to simply ignore a good deal of pain.

Intelligence 16: Bane is nearly on par with the Darknight in sheer brain power. His level of knowledge is not as versatile as the Batmans but he is able to think several move ahead of virtually any opponent.

Wisdom 16: Bane was able to figure out Bruce was the Batman without seeing him take the cowl off. He has excellent intuition.

Charisma 14: A charismatic man, Bane has often attracted followers or lackeys who would work for him.

 

[LGodamus]

I dont wanna sound like a downer but you guys are statting batman ludicrously high........I think you are just like " he kicks ass at this so lets give him a twenty " rather than really thinkin of what those numbers mean...IMNSHO



not that it matters anyway.

 

[Chun-tzu]

I dont wanna sound like a downer but you guys are statting batman ludicrously high........

It's worth noting that there are slight differences in the movie Batman, the Batman of the animated series, the Batman of the comics (and huge differences within the comics, depending on the writer).

In the comics, it's well established that he's a human paragon, nearly perfect in his physical and mental development. In a world of superhumans, that's not that big a deal.

 

[LGodamus]

right but by its own standards D&D heroes are superhuman....
batman would hardly be 20-30th level with outrageous stats

 

[s/LaSH]

Hm. This all depends on how you intend to use Bats, really, doesn't it?

If Bats were to interact with dungeoneering adventurers, how well would he stack up? Difficult to say, really. How about we throw a goblin army at him and see what happens? I don't think he's going to do well against a horde of agile little monsters unless he gets to use the terrain against them (and let's say he doesn't). I just can't see Bats on top of a mound of bodies - he's going to get dragged down after taking out maybe a dozen, I reckon.

He hasn't demonstrated any supernatural abilities, either, unlike a high-level monk; and he's fairly well feated, but not to an extreme level, I'd say - rarely does he Whirlwind, for example.

Overall, I'd give him around 8 levels. He's good, yes, but he's not unbeatable and he knows it, which is why he uses tactics, deduction and maneuverability to his advantage. His player's obviously read Sun Tzu, and cranked up his stealth and deductive abilities. He's smart, he's fast, he's proficient at moving by swinging, and those are his biggest advantages. He can out-sneak most of the JLA and he's the World's Greatest Detective. But in any serious continuity he can't outpunch Supes, outmaneuver Flash, or... um... outswim whatsisface, Fishman. What he can do is avoid and analyse. See A League Of One, in which (SPOILERS) Wonder Woman sets out to take down the rest of the JLA. She takes everyone down with ease except Batman, who keeps her off balance and actually stays up longer than anybody else, including Superman. He's that good at not getting hit.

I give him a couple of Monk levels for the martial arts and high AC, and a lot of Rogue to get the skill points for Hide, Tumble and all those other useful abilities.

But that's just me.


In a supers paradigm, Bats is not really a combatant at all - he just knows how to get an ultra-munchkiny advantage over his opponents, usually by striking from cover and retreating using his superior maneuverability. If Batman fights any other super on equal terms, he gets his posterior handed to him. No, he has to keep his foes off-balance. He's got a massively high AC, of course. But then, most supers go for power over finesse, so not too much AC.

Either way, swinging around on a line is something that's very advantageous for Bats. That's not something D&D handles too well.


I can't think of stats right now, but I'll bear 'em in mind... they'd probably be high-end, of course, but not enormously so.

 

[teitan]

Well, it all depends upon which incarnation you use...

The original Batman was probably LG, since everybody liked him except the bad guys -- he was just wearing the cape and cowl because he didn't want to go through police training.

Ummm... what Batman comics were you reading in 38? Batman had more in common with the Shadow than Doc Savage. Much like Superman, the early Batman was a killer, he didn't have a code against killing criminals, but he would protect the innocent when necessary. He was also very distrusted by the police, very much a rogue agent. It had nothing to do with the LAW and more to do with justice and her sister, vengeance. I would give the original Batman a Chaotic Neutral with good tendencies alignment. Being chaotic does not preclude the ability to have a personal code and inner self discipline.

The early characters were very much influenced by their pulp predecessors.

It was when National realized that their characters were becoming popular that they lightened them up, SUperman all of a sudden had a code against killing and Batman quit carrying his gun around and killing criminals was not his modus operandi. The characters became squeaky clean and well liked by authority figures, acting as role models, especially during WWII.

 

[LGodamus]

s/Lash I believe is the closest to how I feel about batman as well.....

I just cannot see batman as epic...I dont see him going toe to toe with a great wyrm and handing it it's butt on a plate.

 

[Darrin Drader]

If Bats were to interact with dungeoneering adventurers, how well would he stack up?

This is exactly why Batman should be a D20 Modern character and not a D&D character. The surroundings are different, therefore he has become the master of the urban environment.

Aside from that, all 18s and 20s, no way! I like Batman as much as the next guy, but he has to have some flaws in order to make him at all interesting. Here's my take on the dark knight.

Str 16 - Yeah, he's strong, but there are stronger. He is no Arnold.
Dex 14 - same rationale as Strength.
Con 16 - He is resilient, but no more so than other D20 Modern characters would be. I mean we are using hit points after all. A broken back amounts to getting reduced to, what... -5 HP? As long as you get them stabilized, he will make a full recovery eventually. It's game mechanics!
Int 20 - He is the master detective. Yeah, I've often referred to "Detective Comics" as "Defective Comics," but it showcases this aspect of his character. DC has also said that there is no character smarter than Batman.
Wis 8 - Lets face it, the guy has no common sense. If he needs a partner, why in the world would he repeatedly make them kids? What ever happened to ensuring the safety of children rather than helping to endanger them? And then to take on another Robin after the death of Jason Todd?? WTF???
Cha 14 - Charming enough, but can never get a woman to stick around long. Maybe he's just a playa at heart, but if he were really anywhere near an 18 or 20, he would just ask people to stop comitting crimes and they would agree. He wouldn't need to resort to all this mask and cape business.

As for his class, he's taken some levels in strong hero and fast hero, and probably maxed out on Smart hero, and he is definitely epic, probably level 30+.