The Batman Thread

[The Serge]

Since I simply do not wish to write up all his skills, I will end with my opinions on his abilities.

Strength: 18
-Quite simply, this is as strong as humans can be. Batman, through force of will or raw muscle, is a paradigm for humanity. Ergo, his strength is the maximum for humans.

Dexterity: 18
-I would place Grayson, as the best acrobat in the DC universe, as possibly above the "peak" established by DND. Really, Batman dodges everything. He throws Batarangs with uncanny precision. Basically, place him 1-2 pts below Grayson, wherever you think that might be.

Constitution: 20
-Batman's been stabbed, burned, drowned, broken, poisoned, shot, and even temporarially killed (heart restarted). He doesn't die. Plain and simple. His constitution is, like many comic book characters, above human. Like the proverbial cockroach, Wayne's indomitable will will ensure he lives for a long, long time.

Intelligence: 18-20
-This one's tougher. Batman's IQ was reported by writers to be around 200. That's pretty freakishly high. However, depending how you convert IQs to Int, if you do at all, this one's a little subjective. I would tend to go for 20, but that's just me. There is very, very little he does not know.

Wisdom: 18
-Indomitable will, incredible leaps of intution. I would put this higher, but I am of the persuasion that Batman should have above 20's for most mental abilities. Don't want to get flamed for that

Charisma: 20's
-Scary. No one screws w/ Batman. Plus, when it comes to sense of self, Batman's got it down. Highest Charisma in DC universe, bar none, I would have to say.

Hope someone finds my rambling interesting. Please, comments and criticism welcome.

Cheers,
Billiarmus

After seeing this, I don't need to post anything to lengthy on the abilities. This is the closest I've seen to anyone accurately describing The Batman's abilities within a D&D framework.

Excellent job, Billiarmus.

 

[The Serge]

Dang. I wasn't going to post, but now I have to.

Someone gave some very astute examples of why The Batman would have a low Wis and a low Cha.

However, I disagree.

Batman's Wis is probably higher than any other character's in DC with the possible exception of Superman and any of the Green Lanterns (save Guy Gardner when he was a Lantern... and save Hal Jordon before he went nutso, become "Galantern" and then The Spectre). Batman's willpower is almost indomitable. Everytime's he's been brainwashed, it's been during usual circumstances when he was pushed to the edge. When he's been pushed to the edge, it's been in situations in which he was "punishing" himself for his own actions or inactions. Is this Wise? Maybe not, but it's human and that's one thing that The Batman is despite the fact that within DC (and superheroic comics in general) he's the pinnacle of human achievement. Like every human being, he makes mistakes and, for someone who's almost completely mastered his emotions (although it could be argued that he's almost suppressed them), occasionally they boil over. Frankly, he's wiser than Superman or at least has a huge Sense Motive (one can lie to Superman and get away with it unless Big Blue uses his super powers to detect the lie. Bats just looks you in the eye or hears your voice and knows). In Kingdom Come, he's the only one both Int and Wis enough to know what Luthor's up to and to keep track on the behaviors of metahumans and the World Government... and he manages to talk WW out of killing him.

As for Cha, even Superman watches his step around Batman. Bats has a huge Cha but has absolutely no Diplomacy. When Bats shows up and wants everyone to know he's there, he has no problem taking command of a situation. He has the ability to lead (he's led the JL a number of times), but doesn't like working with others whom can get him killed (he knows that whatever can take down The Flash could probably eat him with little effort), so he doesn't interact with them much. He's even intimidated the likes of Lex Luthor!

So, I would agree with high Wis and Cha scores for Bats. As for skills, he'd definitely have high Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive ranks. He'd have Iron Will, Great Fortitude, and Lightning Reflexes.

Now, how 'bout The Joker?!

 

[Darrin Drader]

After seeing this, I don't need to post anything to lengthy on the abilities. This is the closest I've seen to anyone accurately describing The Batman's abilities within a D&D framework.

Excellent job, Billiarmus.

Wow, sarcasm. I don't think we see enough of that on these boards.

 

[Ferret]

My states(Brought up on the cartoon)

Batman Expert 1/fighter 8/paladin 2/Rogue 3

Str: 16, top withough going ovber board lifting people but not cars.

Dex: (14)17, the bracketed is simply if his stealth and lockpick is trained, I haven't seen him do flips. However I could believe a higher stat.

Con: 14, Enough not to be crippled, he lack quasi-regenerative powers I associate with 18-20 con

Intelligence: 14-16, I can't tell he uses his computer far to much, on his feet he thinks fast, and knows stuff, but it just seems like stuff)

Wisdom: 16, Detective, and aware of his surroundings.

Charisma: 18 Scare the hit out of you and you 6' 5" buddies, if not know when he knock two of there feet with a dustbin lid... at twenty paces without you noticing.

 

[The Serge]

Wow, sarcasm. I don't think we see enough of that on these boards.

I wasn't being sarcastic...

 

[PaulGreystoke]

Batman a Killer?

Ummm... what Batman comics were you reading in 38? Batman had more in common with the Shadow than Doc Savage. Much like Superman, the early Batman was a killer, he didn't have a code against killing criminals, but he would protect the innocent when necessary. He was also very distrusted by the police, very much a rogue agent. It had nothing to do with the LAW and more to do with justice and her sister, vengeance. I would give the original Batman a Chaotic Neutral with good tendencies alignment. Being chaotic does not preclude the ability to have a personal code and inner self discipline.

The early characters were very much influenced by their pulp predecessors.

It was when National realized that their characters were becoming popular that they lightened them up, SUperman all of a sudden had a code against killing and Batman quit carrying his gun around and killing criminals was not his modus operandi. The characters became squeaky clean and well liked by authority figures, acting as role models, especially during WWII.

What comics were you reading in '39? Batman was never a killer, right from the very start. He used a gun in precisely 1 issue - & that was against the undead, not against criminals. Now I absolutely agree with you that the original Bob Kane Batman was inspired by the pulps, but it is unsupportable to suggest that the character was as cavalier about human life as was the Shadow in waging his one man war on crime. Bob Kane didn't mention a code against killing in the stories, but the character lived by it. Then it became a written code once (as you noted) National realized how popular & influential these comic books were becoming. But that just made explicit what was already implicit in the early run of stories - Bruce Wayne was not a killer.

Now as to the alignment issue, there is of course no good answer because no 2 people can agree on what the Good/Evil & Law/Chaos axes actually represent. I would argue that the Batman is Good because he is willing to make immense personal sacrifices in order to combat evil & protect the innocent. I think that is indisputable, & yet people dispute it. As to Law/Chaos, I would go with Neutral. The Batman seeks Justice - & works outside the system in order to perfect it. A Lawful character would work within the system & would tend to feel that vigilantism only weakens the system. A Chaotic character would feel that the system was part of the problem & wouldn't go the lengths that Bruce Wayne does to support it. *shrugs* But I think a case can be made for either Lawful or Chaotic given the fuzziness about D&D alignment & the long tortured history of the character under various writers in various media over the past 64 years.

I won't even enter the discussion on the Batman's stats. My flameproof Batsuit is at the cleaners...

 

[Billiarmus]

First of all, thanks Serge, for the agreement on my scores. I tried to logically break down his abilities in the context not only of "factual" information provided, as well as iconic status in the DC Universe and qualitative comparision.

>Originally posted by Baraendur
>
>Wow, sarcasm. I don't think we see enough of that on these >boards.

As for Baraendur, well, I can only hope that you simply fail to reconize your humor may be construed as rude to some members, not only myself. Clearly, you have your own views, but there's no need to make this a caustic argument one way or another. At any rate, if you don't agree w/ my analysis, that's fine. I thought it rather well-done in providing evidence, but c'est la vie, I suppose. Everyone differs in opinion, though I would have to challenge the "8 wisdom" assertion most fervantly. However, the argument speaks for itself, really.

Forgive anything that may be construed as insulting. Everything from subtle sarcasm to genuine agreement may be misconstrued in a text-based forum.

Cheers,
Billiarmus

 

[Chasmodai]

I agree with Chun Tzu. I get both your points, what with Batman making bad decisions and having some mental/psychological problems, but a Wisdom score of 8 is pretty pathetic for the World's Greatest Detective don't you think?

He's made some good judgements plenty of times and he's pretty good at making rational decisions. As for his choice of partners, let's just put it down to his past and a psychological need to be a 'father-figure' of some sort to teens who otherwise wouldn't have one (like he himself was).

I'd put his Wisdom at a starting 12, but it would soon go up after a few levels.

 

[Silver Moon]

The original Batman was probably LG, since everybody liked him except the bad guys -- he was just wearing the cape and cowl because he didn't want to go through police training.

I'd have to disagree with you on this one, given the statement 'original Batman'. The Detective Comics #27 Batman was pretty brutal, and continued that way for the first year or so, before they softened the tone. Heck, even Superman was rather cut-throat, allowing and somewhat assisting villains and thugs into death during his earliest issues.

 

[Endur]

Batman
Str 18
Dex 18
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 18
Chr 18

The above stats don't include his level adjustements. So the +1 for 4 levels would probably be spent on Int and Chr to raise it even higher.

Not sure how many levels he has, but he is definitely EPIC level. After all, he's been fighting crime since 1939, almost 65 years in the comics, on the radio, TV, and the movies.