The Beatdown Radar

[Shemeska]

*polite chuckle*

Ignoring for the moment that half of the PCs in my current campaign would glow various shades of evil under that spell... I would ask players if they're retarded if they pulled the stunt of "detect evil and proceed to kill and take the stuff of anything that glows". Killing something for no reason other than it's evil is IMHO one of the most grating and shallow behaviors you could pull in an RPG.

God forbid you have to coexist with evil people, and in my campaign you'd have a massive headache if you kept the "beatdown radar" up, oh what with the fiends and all wandering around and living in the same city you're based out of. Attacking some random person for being of a not kosher alignment would only have you thrown in jail, exiled, or executed for assault or murder.

"Ah hah! I knew it! You're EVIL!" - World's Worst Paladin
"Yes yes, what gave that away bright guy? The fact that I have the head of a jackal, I'm smoking opium with gusto and no apparent ill effect, and that I have an enslaved elf polishing the claws on my feet? Real difficult call there pal. Should I strip down to my "Whore for Anthraxus" T-shirt perhaps? Would that make it easier on you?" - Bemused Fiend
"You admit to it oh foul creature!" - WWP
"Yes yes. Sit down and hush. You came to me to purchase all those not-poisons called ravages, lovely little dealers of agony they are, and you buy in bulk so I'm paying for the drinks. Don't make me regret getting you all liquored up." - Fiend
Hic! *stagger* *detect evil* - WWP
"Why must you make a scene? I can't take you out anywhere..." - Fiend

 

[dvvega]

I must have missed the text somewhere in the PHB ... however nowhere does it say that a Paladin does not know what Detect Evil does.

A Paladin would use the concentration options to ensure the evil he is detecting isn't just an alignment trend as opposed to a dedicated evil Cleric of Hextor.

IMC most players avoid Paladins in general however the last Paladin player used his ability very rarely in public (since concentration was required and thus obvious to observers) but in dungeons and while on watch he would use the quite scan option (no concentration) to sense evil beings within the range. It helped them avoid ambushes behind closed dungeon doors but not much else.

On watch it allowed them to rouse the party before enemies came at them, but not much more advantage than that.

 

[Aaron L]

Never seen or encountered a problem with Paladins and Detect Evil. We'll use it as a confirmation, or maybe sometimes to scout out ahead of us for Evil creatures.

Since it's a spell like ability, we have always ruled that it's pretty obvious that the Paladin using it is "up to something." I call it "the hairy eyeball." The Paladin is obviously concentrating and scrutinizing the target. Most people don't take well to being started at and studied like that.

No one I have ever played with would ever try to get away with using Detect Evil as some kind of excuse to freely kill Evil people. In fact, everyone I play with would consider it to be appalling and definitely not Lawful Good, and in no way in keeping with the spirit of a Paladin.

 

[Aristeas]

Even if you don't let th paladin get away with smiting anyone who looks evil, it still provides an annoyingly easy way to tag all the villains. Say the king has two advisors, one of whom is secretly in league with demons to overthrow him. If Detect (Alignment) didn't exist, this would be an interesting problem- you'd have to try to find evidence of the treachery somehow, and magic would be only limited help, since spells like Discern Lie allow a saving throw and are thus unreliable. But as is, it takes a first level spell with no save to pick out the evil one, which means that not only will the party be in doubt for a maximum of twelve seconds, but they can easily prove it to the king by having, say, every cleric at the local temple swear that Minister B is evil. There are ways to get around this (make both ministers lawful neutral, have someone cast Misdirection and Magic Aura on Minister B several times a day), but they all seem a little awkward to me. In my campaigns, Detect (Alignment) works only on undead, outsiders, and creatures with the Aura of (Alignment) class feature. It's much less problematic then.

 

[Psion]

How do you handle this in your games?

By not assuming that society somehow advocates this, or that everyone who is evil can be assaulted without repercussions. Unless your nation is some kind of holy theocracy that gives a detect evil spell the authority to determine who you can assault... no, not even then, because such a society would not be good; a truly good religion would prefer reformation of all but the most vile evil IMV and would not have such a haphazard blanket policy.

A paladin who assaulted everyone who detected as evil IMC would at best get in trouble with the authorities, and as likely as not, lose his paladinhood.

 

[shilsen]

I'm with the people who go with the approach that a paladin who attacks everyone who detects as evil will not only have legal issues but quickly become a non-paladin.

Detect Evil as written is horribly imprecise, and I think that's exactly how it should be. The LN Clr11 of a LE deity detects as overwhelmingly evil, while a mass murdering CE Ftr10 would detect as faintly evil, less so than the Com11 innkeeper who steals from people and beats his wife.

And then there's the whole question of how ubiquitous evil is in society. Being a cynical so-and-so, about 20% of human society is evil in my game, which is about the same proportion as good. So a paladin detecting evil in the marketplace, for example, picks up dozens of evil auras.

IMNSHO, running Detect Evil exactly as written leads to a very sigificant amount of moral ambiguity in the game, rather than the black-&-white morality people often talk about D&D as having. It is when people house-rule Detect Evil to be more specific and precise that things become more simplistic and "Detect and Smite" becomes a valid option.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

True, on the other hand, evil clerics who care about hiding their affiliations all have access to that handy 24 hours/casting undetectable alignment spell. Evil clerics who don't use it either:
A. Don't need to because they are protected by the laws or are the law (frex, the high cleric of Hextor in the Great Kingdom)
or
B. Don't need to because they aren't high enough level to radiate even moderate evil yet.

Undead? Well, yeah, but most people are ready to smite them whether or not they radiate evil. If they're pretending to be alive and nonvillainous, any undead powerful enough to radiate unusual amounts of evil should have the capability to disguise their alignment. Or maybe they're powerful enough that they don't care.

As for the rest, there is one thing that paladins who use the beat-down radar should keep in mind: mid level evil priests, polymorphed evil great wyrms, and Lord Robilar all radiate about the same amount of evil. Woe be to the 12th level paladin who smites Lord Robilar or the great wyrm because they radiate moderate or strong evil. ("Oops, sorry, I thought you were a mid level cultist, I mean, you're obviously not going to die now that I've smitten you, so maybe we could just let bygones be byegones, right?")

Detect evil can be a beat-down radar if you want it to be. On the other hand, it can also be a great tool for a DM in developing a world full of shades of grey. The villain who is kidnapping villagers didn't detect as evil when you met him (maybe he was disguising his alignment); the city guard who just finished beating a confession out of a suspect down the hall is evil; one out of the three villagers begging for your assistance against the bandits is evil--who are you gonna trust? And what is detect evil really telling you? One thing's for certain, if it doesn't only detect the villain of the plot, detect evil stops being a beat-down radar. And, by the RAW, there is no reason that detect evil should reliably detect the villain of the plot rather than the greedy wife-beater or scheming gold-digger.

If you'll note the hit dice to strength ratios in Detect Evil, clerics, undead, and elementals that are evil are going to be much stronger than evil non-Clr/undead/elementals.


Personally, I find detect magic to be pretty annoying. Detect magic! Where's the loot, where's the magic traps. Maybe I run too many adventures with magic traps.

 

[Aeric]

I have tossed out actual alignments in my games, and have the items/spells/abilities that deal with alignments (Smite, Protection from Evil, Robe of the Archmagi) work on those who have an alignment aura: paladins and blackguards, clerics, elder dragons and undead, and outsiders such as demons and solars. No one else is so devoted to a particular ethos so much that the supernatural recognizes them as Good or Evil and reacts accordingly. It is a system which allows for a shades-of-grey type of game without eliminating certain aspects of the game mechanics.

 

[lukelightning]

As long as you can strip a paladin's abilities for evil acts, even accidental ones, then I think they should keep detect evil.

 

[Umbran]

How do you handle this in your games? Have you ever encountered it? Do you encourage or discourage it?

Well, paladins are not stupid, and they are highly concerned with Law and their Code. That generally means they ought to have some sort of proof, or at least extreme cause for belief, before they go laying smackdowns on anyone. Basically, it needs to be able to stand up in court (or Court, or whatever form of judicial system their culture has), even if the Paladin doesn't actually have time to make use of that system.

Given that a simple Detect Evil can be fooled by a mere 2nd level spell (Misdirection), it does not usually stand anywhere near "proof" of anything. So, in my games a Paladin may use the ability as a quick litmus test, but killing just because a person shows as evil counts has hubris on the Paladin's part, and they are apt to lose their powers if they do so.