Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
I could use some help building a character from early on until later.
I plan on doing straight psychic warrior, human, with every feat used to improve his psicrystal. The basic premise is that he himself hates to use violence directly and doesnt like blood on his hands. So he uses his psicrystal whenever possible to do pretty much anything.
Later on the psicrystal will actually be smarter (much smarter actually) and will be doing all of the talking, acting, and generally be the actual character with the psychic warrior himself falling into the background, much like normal psicrystals and familiars do.
I am not sure if there is a better route for this build or what items to pick up really. More feats tend to wind up being better along with more pp. Perhaps going straight psion would be better though?
36 point buy.
Beginning at level one:
Human Psychic Warrior 1
Medium humanoid
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 18
Int: 12
Wis: 18
Cha: 8
HD: 1d8+4 (12 hp)
Ini: -1
Speed: 30'
AC: 15 = 10 (base) +4 (scale mail armor) +2 (heavy wooden shield) -1 (dex)
BAB/Grapple: +0/-1
Attack: -1 (longsword, d8 19-20/x2)
Saves: F: +6=+2 (base) +4 (stat), R: -1=+0 (base) -1 (stat), W: +4= +0 (base) +4 (stat)
Skills: 16 skill points off of psychic warrior list
Feats: Psicrystal affinity, Improved psicrystal, Improved psicrystal
PP: 2 = 0 (base) + 2 (stat)
Manifestor level: 1
Powers: 1st: Bite of the wolf (to be manifested on the psicrystal)
Special: Benefits from psicrystal and its 3 traits
Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
HD: 1
HP: 6
Ini: +2
Speed:30', climb 20' *
AC: 17 = +4 (size modifier) +2 (Dex*) +1 (natural armor)
BAB/Grapple: +0/–17
Attack:— (diminutive gives +4 to attack)
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Construct traits, hardness 8, psicrystal granted abilities (alertness to master, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link, Deliver touch powers)
Saves:As master’s saves
Abilities:Str 1*, Dex 15*, Con —, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills:Climb +14*, Listen +6, Move Silently +6, Search +2, Spot +6, + masters skills
Feats:Alertness
Traits: 3 traits
This seems pretty weak for a first level character really. Mainly because he likely wont be attacking unless forced into it and the psicrystal can only attack for two combats a day really.
Maybe it would be better to go psion?
Human Psion 1
Medium humanoid
Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 8
Cha: 8
HD: 1d4+4 (8 hp)
Ini: +1
Speed: 30'
AC: 15 = 10 (base) +4 (scale mail armor) +2 (heavy wooden shield) +1 (dex)
Armor Check Penalty: -6 (the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks, basically all dex and str based checks, double for swimming)
BAB/Grapple: +0/-1
Attack: -7 (dagger, d4 19-20/x2), -5 (light crossbow, d8 19-20/x2)
Saves: F: +4=+0 (base) +4 (stat), R: +1=+0 (base) +1 (stat), W: +1= +2 (base) -1 (stat)
Skills: 36 skill points off of psion list, not sure which psion
Feats: Psicrystal affinity, Improved psicrystal, Improved psicrystal
PP: 4 = 2 (base) + 2 (stat)
Manifestor level: 1
Powers: 1st: ??? 3 known, not sure what would help the psicrystal attack while leaving the psion free to not get his hands dirty
Special: Benefits of the psicrystal and its 3 traits
Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
HD: 1
HP: 4
Ini: +2
Speed:30', climb 20' *
AC: 17 = +4 (size modifier) +2 (Dex*) +1 (natural armor)
BAB/Grapple: +0/–17
Attack:— (diminutive gives +4 to attack)
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Construct traits, hardness 8, psicrystal granted abilities (alertness to master, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link, deliver touch powers)
Saves:As master’s saves
Abilities:Str 1*, Dex 15*, Con —, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills:Climb +14*, Listen +6, Move Silently +6, Search +2, Spot +6, + masters skills
Feats:Alertness
Traits: 3 traits
At higher levels this would be easier, but I need a good start and suggestions on where to go from here.
If I go straight psychic warrior then the abilites are pretty easy, they have a lot of offensive and defensive powers, but almost no power points to use them with.
If I go psion they are much harder pressed for appropriate offensive and defensive powers.
Any suggestions?
Originally posted by thechocobomafia:
I might be completely off my rocker by saying this, as I don't have the XPH on me right now, but does the PsyWar even GET a psicrystal?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Con is important, but for the most part buying an 18 is a little too costly. for the psychic warror build, go 14 str 12 dex 14 con or something to that effect, what do you expect to do with an 8 strength? psychic warriors have mainly self buffs, the psion could get away with it because he could have a hirling carry him into battleand it wouldn't make a difference, for a psychic warrior you need to be able to carry armor and lay the smack down in melee (or ranged theoretically). I'm really missing how this is going to be effective.
Originally posted by ravashack:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
The guy tends to work much better at mid to high levels, although I would love any suggestions that people have for improving it.
Some of the improved psicrystal feats can be dropped for a good enough reason. The stats may also be rearranged.. they are currently placed to maximize the psicrystals abilities (int boosts the psicrystals skills, con boosts its hp, wis boosts the number of powers that may be placed on it).
It might be that it cannot be done without a certain number of homemade feats/powers, but I was hopeing some here might have a few suggestions
Originally posted by phoenixinferno:
I like the Scarface/Ventriloquist feel to this - kudos.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Your psicrystal will always have +0 BAB, what do you expect him to do?
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
A huge debate on the psionics boards and multiple mails to CustServ have shown that, due to unusual wording on Psicrystal Affinity, psicrystals actually have the base attack bonus of a rogue of your hit dice.
And even if you said "bollocks!" to this, and went with the familiar rules, he'd have your base attack.
I think this is feasable. Scion, I seem to recall a build here a while ago that used a whisper gnome under augmented Compression riding a psicrystal under augmented Expansion, and behaved as a cavalier-type build. I forget who made it, though.
Originally posted by rampant:
use psion if your just a PP bank then you would have powers known to spen on indirect powers like charm and dominate or astral construct
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Psywar gets all the good "you get a natural attack" powers, up to and including Form of Doom (which many of us consider the funniest use of Share Powers imaginable), and an assortment of powers that can enhance these new attacks. These are necessary for the attack-less and opposable-thumbless psicrystals. Plus, they get more feats for Improved Psicrystal, and if you want a PP bank, they serve decently if you give them Psionic Body and lots of Psionic Talent feats (which is, I maintain, a great way to play a psiwar anyway. Add Improved Toughess in there and you get a great tank.).
Imagine, at low levels, Psionic Talent, Psicrystal Affinity, and Psionic Body as your three feats (human). Pack on Psionic Talent and Improved Psicrystal, alternating them. When you can afford it or if you have a teammate, get a Reformation or two to customize to your current demands.
This might be the safest approach to your chararacter concept, given how weak the psiwar was in your example. This also spares some ability points for other things, since the Psionic Body feat can help a lot with hit points as is.
By the way, Scion, your idea has intrigued me. I play in a one-shot club around here (easy idea, we rotate DMs every session, and the stories are just random adventures with an assortment of characters. Fits most of our needs well), and I think I'll introduce this concept soon. Especially after we play at a level where the psywar will be as smart or dumber than the psicrystal.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
While I normally dont play in games that allow flaws I think that this character would likely need them to get off of the ground at first level (at later levels it isnt as important, but the first few levels are very weak).
going with tempest stormwinds suggestion we get this:
Human Psychic Warrior 1
Medium humanoid
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 18
Int: 12
Wis: 18
Cha: 8
HD: 1d8+4 (con) +6 (feat) (18 hp)
Ini: -1
Speed: 30'
AC: 15 = 10 (base) +4 (scale mail armor) +2 (heavy wooden shield) -1 (dex)
BAB/Grapple: +0/-1
Attack: -1 (longsword, d8 19-20/x2)
Saves: F: +6=+2 (base) +4 (stat), R: -1=+0 (base) -1 (stat), W: +4= +0 (base) +4 (stat)
Skills: 16 skill points off of psychic warrior list
Feats: Psicrystal affinity, Psionic body, Psionic talent
PP: 4 = 0 (base) + 2 (stat) +2 (feat)
Manifestor level: 1
Powers: 1st: Bite of the wolf (to be manifested on the psicrystal)
Special: Benefits from psicrystal and its 1 trait
Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
HD: 1
HP: 9
Ini: +2
Speed: 30', climb 20' *
AC: 16 = +4 (size modifier) +2 (Dex*)
BAB/Grapple: +0/–17
Attack: — (diminutive gives +4 to attack)
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Construct traits, hardness 8, psicrystal granted abilities (alertness to master, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link)
Saves: As master’s saves
Abilities: Str 1*, Dex 15*, Con —, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Climb +14*, Listen +6, Move Silently +6, Search +2, Spot +6, + masters skills
Feats: Alertness
Traits: 1 traits
While the psychic warrior is missing 2 extra traits, which isnt incredibly meaningful, the psicrystal is missing a point of AC, a point of Int, and the ability to deliver touch powers.
But the psicrystal did gain 3 hp and the psychic warrior gained 2pp. In essence allowing it to fight in more battles for the day.
At level 1 the little guy does 1 damage on a successful bite attack (2 on a crit, yey! ). But they are a tough to kill duo with a good amount of hp and the psychic warrior always going total defensive.
This next part it outside of the bounds of part of the goal I had here, but it may make it actually able to be played.
Flaws:
Wuss (flaw) (yeah, it probably needs a better name):
Drawback: Whenever you make any attack rolls you get an extra -4 penalty.
Weak Stomach (flaw):
Drawback: Whenever you make a direct offensive action (basically anything that would negate invisibility) you become sickened. Each round you may spend a full round action to make a DC 20 will save to end this effect.
Sickened: The character takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
I think that both of these represent the character fairly well. Unfortunately no dm's I know have used flaws before
Still though, here is the character with these tossed in:
Human Psychic Warrior 1
Medium humanoid
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 18
Int: 12
Wis: 18
Cha: 8
HD: 1d8+4 (con) +10 (feat) (22 hp)
Ini: -1
Speed: 30'
AC: 15 = 10 (base) +4 (scale mail armor) +2 (heavy wooden shield) -1 (dex)
BAB/Grapple: +0/-1
Attack: -1 (longsword, d8 19-20/x2)
Saves: F: +6=+2 (base) +4 (stat), R: -1=+0 (base) -1 (stat), W: +4= +0 (base) +4 (stat)
Skills: 16 skill points off of psychic warrior list
Flaws: Wuss, Weak stomach
Feats: Psicrystal affinity, Psionic body, Psionic talentx2, improved psicrystal
PP: 7 = 0 (base) + 2 (stat) +5 (feat)
Manifestor level: 1
Powers: 1st: Bite of the wolf (to be manifested on the psicrystal)
Special: Benefits from psicrystal and its 2 traits
Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
HD: 1
HP: 11
Ini: +2
Speed: 30', climb 20' *
AC: 16 = +4 (size modifier) +2 (Dex*)
BAB/Grapple: +0/–17
Attack: — (diminutive gives +4 to attack)
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Construct traits, hardness 8, psicrystal granted abilities (alertness to master, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link)
Saves: As master’s saves
Abilities: Str 1*, Dex 15*, Con —, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Climb +14*, Listen +6, Move Silently +6, Search +2, Spot +6, + masters skills
Feats: Alertness
Traits: 2 traits
This way they actually have the durability needed to last through a battle and the pp to spend so that they might be able to do enough damage before they are both killed.
I cant decide which power would be best to pick up next level however: Compression or Expansion.
Expansion would allow for more damage (this would be good) but compression would make them both harder to hit and give a pretty hefty bonus to attack rolls for the psicrystal.
Originally posted by hogarth:
If you don't have easy access to the Repair Damage line of spells or Psionic Repair Damage, I'd say forget about this idea: psicrystals can't heal. Otherwise I think you'll need someone with the Craft Construct feat to repair the psicrystal at a cost of 50 gp per hit point which seems a tad expensive.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
When a psicrystal is destroyed you can simply get it back again.
But a dorje with repair damage isnt terribly expensive anyway
Originally posted by ipsissimus:
Sounds like a very high RPG campaign which is great but...your DM should be able to take control or even act as your psicrystal. It's not like the leadership feat and it certainly has a bias outlook on life since it has a personalty strand.
I would suggest going psion over psywarrior, so when you get to higher lvls you won't get pummelled by either the enemy for delaying to long arguing with your psicrystal or your party members for not be proactive enough in combat.
...we had a similar character in our campaign a while ago, where his raven talked for him and spoke for him unless the recipient was of noble blood...none in the party obviously was noble blood nor did we have any chance to get any in us vs. on our weapons. That didn't last very long. The idea sounds fun but in a long term game it tends to get annoying, so if you can figure out how to make it fun for everyone I say...more power to you and enjoy.
Originally posted by hogarth:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Shame you can't give the Psicrystal feats - otherwise you could give it the Leadership feat and make the PsyWar the cohort
If other races were available you could go for some kind of Fey with a very small size and maybe something like invisibility at will. That way no-one need ever see you to attack you.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
And by the way, what benefit would come with assigning the psywar as the cohort?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Why not play the PsiCrystal from the begining? Psicrystal turned character is a cool thread about an high level psion's psicristal. When its master died, the psicrystal kept his personality and the humanoid shape his master gave him, and he continued itself to gain levels as a psionic character, using an modified warforged race.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Synchronicity is terribly broken (what else is new?) when used with a psicrystal.
Simply keep manifesting synchronicity until your psicrystal has enough actions to kill the BBEG, and then the rest of your party.
Non-broken powers to use:
Also, take ranks in Use Psionic Device so your psicrystal can perch on your shoulder and blast things with dorjes.
Originally posted by ipsissimus:
unless it's "published" and not assumed that psicrystals do to the RAW there's no way outside of money, cash, money, cash, farming tools, will I be able to convince him that my psionic familiar has he refers to it is able to take feats.
...if you can find an example of a psion with lvls published in a d20 book that lists the psicrystal having it's own feats then sure, if not. It's like one of those, imp natural attac/monk unarmed attacks infinite loop threads where you're either for it or against it.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
find me an intelligent creature that does not have feats for some reason.
The psicrystal has hd so it should gain feats based on the rules unless its own rules override it.
Its rules do not override it.
Hence, the psicrystal gets feats.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Oooh, imagine an evil psicrystal that bonds to manifesters, entices them into using feats to improve it, then later it drains all their PP and kills them.
Originally posted by jedrious:
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Consider this, too -- if you take Leadership, you could get a support character. You now have the psicrystal, the Psychic Warr-- er, Puppet, and the cohort.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
They have a special stipulation on their HD and HP, saying, respectively, "As master" and "half master's". This means that, unlike familiars (which merely "are treated as if they had" hit dice), psicrystals actually gain HD as their master does.
Their HP is not tied to their HD, given how it has a specific rule attached to it.
However, everything else is. And they're CONSTRUCT HD, which include 3/4 base attack bonus.
Note how, unlike familiars, there's nothing saying that the psicrystal uses its master's base attack bonus.
Conclusion: a psicrystal has a base attack bonus equal to a psychic warrior of appropriate level.
Note that there are no base classes, and only one prestige class (two with Ghostbreaker) that have full base attack, however.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Ah, this makes a lot more sense now. This makes them a bit better than a wizard's familiar, as it should be (since it costs a feat, while wizards get their familiar more or less for free).
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I'm not sure the character would simply retreat into the background.... so what if his Psicrystal gets a 15 int eventually? Don't forget --- the "puppet" still has 12 int and more importantly-- 18 wis --- to start with. Intelligence isn't everything. The crystal is smarter, but the master is far and away wiser and more cunning. Still, it's a cool idea. Consider it yoinked!
Originally posted by hovnarr:
How is the PsiCrystal doing any fighting at all, even with Bite of the Wolf, with a strength of 1? I would use an Egoist for this path instead, manifesting Metamorphosis on it come level 7. That way you're not stuck with the horrible stats of the crystal and can use your PsiCr much like a versatile Astral Construct. In fact, if you're mainly interested in the "no blood on my hands" concept, just going straight Shaper(or Wilder)/Constructor and dropping the PsiCr idea might be the best thing for you to do.
Originally posted by CanineLord:
How 'bout going Nomad--->Uncarnate?
Talk about the Psion half of the equation just "fading into the background". Stick the Uncarnate in the wall of a dungeon and have him shadow his psicrystal completely unseen/undetected.
Originally posted by hogarth:
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
what exactly is the egoist going to do at level 1 anyway?
Originally posted by Lokiyn:
The biggest dificulty with psicrystals is that they find it hard to qualify for the majority of feats that have a stat requirement. Althought later on you can cheat a little and give your crystal an item to boost its stats that is for later in the game. in addition to that there is the unfortunate problem of qualifying for many psionic feats that require a manifester level, which cannot be obtained through the talent feats.
Frakly what i have found to be the most efficient use of the psicrystal is to give it the ride chain of feats which only require it to have a rank or two in ride. This is used in conjunction with an item that allows the psicrystal to change form. For example there is an item in the A&Eg that allows your psicrystal access to a polymorph that lasts 24 hours and is relatively inexpensive.
What you do with this is have the controller manifest spells through the psicrystal to charm an opponent and have the puppeteer pilot its new body, using its enthrall (ex) ability.
If you feel that using the psicrystal as the source of a power isn't enough your next resort is either an item or to take as many Improved psicrystals as possible to pump up the hd of the cystal to the point where the crystal can manifest a power on its own.
Possibly if you feel that you can convince your party to agree have the next BBEG succumb to subdual damge or some other method of subduing him for your psicrystal/Puppeteer's new "host"
or if your feeling munchkiny claim that as your leadership feat you seek out and convince puppetters to join you and your cause, they are only 1/4HD so you could seed a lot of powerful creatures with puppeteer for your army.
Originally posted by drowsmurf:
hey im sorry to burst your bubble here... but on page 207 of the XPH it says under Combat that the Psicrystal has HD "equal to the masters HD (counting only levels of psion or wilder)" so i dont think Psy Warrior works for your character...
i hope im wrong though, cause this is an awesome idea!
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
There's a couple holdovers from partial revisions in the text -- this is one, the mention of bonus PP coming from only one score is another, stuff like that -- which is contradicted by earlier material in the book (in this case, Psicrystal Affinity and the rules on them in the Psion section, or the entire Multiclass Psionic Characters thing).
Originally posted by Lokiyn:
Going on with a quick to read chart here goes the progression of a BGWM Psion Build
Psion 1 Psicrystal 1 Feat<br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 2 <br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 3 Feat<br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 4 <br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 5 <br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 6 Feat<br />Psion 2 Psicrystal 7 <br />Psion 3 Psicrystal 8 <br />Psion 3 Psicrystal 9 Feat<br />Psion 4 Psicrystal 10 <br />Psion 5 Psicrystal 11 <br />Psion 5 Psicrystal 12 Feat<br />Psion 6 Psicrystal 13 <br />Psion 6 Psicrystal 14 <br />Psion 7 Psicrystal 15 Feat<br />Psion 8 Psicrystal 16 <br />Psion 9 Psicrystal 17 <br />Psion 9 Psicrystal 18 Feat <br />Psion 10 Psicrystal 19 <br />Psion 10 Psicrystal 20 <br />Psion 11 Psicrystal 21 Feat Psicrystal Power<br />Psion 12 Psicrystal 22 <br />Psion 12 Psicrystal 23 <br />Psion 13 Psicrystal 24 Feat <br />Psion 14 Psicrystal 25 <br />Psion 15 Psicrystal 26 <br />Psion 15 Psicrystal 27 Feat <br />Psion 15 Psicrystal 28 <br />Psion 16 Psicrystal 29 <br />Psion 17 Psicrystal 30 Feat <br />Psion 18 Psicrystal 31 Psicrystal Power<br />Psion 18 Psicrystal 32 <br />Psion 19 Psicrystal 33 Feat<br />Psion 20 Psicrystal 34 <br />Psion 20 Psicrystal 35
Giving you by level 20 a level 35 Psicrystal with 12 Feats of which 5 are epic feats. Has a B.A.B. of +15/+10/+5 with an epic bonus to b.a.b. of 7 giving it an attack pattern of +22/+17/+12 no including ability modifiers of course.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
epic bonus to BAB? would the psicrystal qualify to get that? he isnt actually a 'level' higher. Am I missing a rule somewhere?
I could use some help building a character from early on until later.
I plan on doing straight psychic warrior, human, with every feat used to improve his psicrystal. The basic premise is that he himself hates to use violence directly and doesnt like blood on his hands. So he uses his psicrystal whenever possible to do pretty much anything.
Later on the psicrystal will actually be smarter (much smarter actually) and will be doing all of the talking, acting, and generally be the actual character with the psychic warrior himself falling into the background, much like normal psicrystals and familiars do.
I am not sure if there is a better route for this build or what items to pick up really. More feats tend to wind up being better along with more pp. Perhaps going straight psion would be better though?
36 point buy.
Beginning at level one:
Human Psychic Warrior 1
Medium humanoid
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 18
Int: 12
Wis: 18
Cha: 8
HD: 1d8+4 (12 hp)
Ini: -1
Speed: 30'
AC: 15 = 10 (base) +4 (scale mail armor) +2 (heavy wooden shield) -1 (dex)
BAB/Grapple: +0/-1
Attack: -1 (longsword, d8 19-20/x2)
Saves: F: +6=+2 (base) +4 (stat), R: -1=+0 (base) -1 (stat), W: +4= +0 (base) +4 (stat)
Skills: 16 skill points off of psychic warrior list
Feats: Psicrystal affinity, Improved psicrystal, Improved psicrystal
PP: 2 = 0 (base) + 2 (stat)
Manifestor level: 1
Powers: 1st: Bite of the wolf (to be manifested on the psicrystal)
Special: Benefits from psicrystal and its 3 traits
Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
HD: 1
HP: 6
Ini: +2
Speed:30', climb 20' *
AC: 17 = +4 (size modifier) +2 (Dex*) +1 (natural armor)
BAB/Grapple: +0/–17
Attack:— (diminutive gives +4 to attack)
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Construct traits, hardness 8, psicrystal granted abilities (alertness to master, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link, Deliver touch powers)
Saves:As master’s saves
Abilities:Str 1*, Dex 15*, Con —, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills:Climb +14*, Listen +6, Move Silently +6, Search +2, Spot +6, + masters skills
Feats:Alertness
Traits: 3 traits
This seems pretty weak for a first level character really. Mainly because he likely wont be attacking unless forced into it and the psicrystal can only attack for two combats a day really.
Maybe it would be better to go psion?
Human Psion 1
Medium humanoid
Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 8
Cha: 8
HD: 1d4+4 (8 hp)
Ini: +1
Speed: 30'
AC: 15 = 10 (base) +4 (scale mail armor) +2 (heavy wooden shield) +1 (dex)
Armor Check Penalty: -6 (the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks, basically all dex and str based checks, double for swimming)
BAB/Grapple: +0/-1
Attack: -7 (dagger, d4 19-20/x2), -5 (light crossbow, d8 19-20/x2)
Saves: F: +4=+0 (base) +4 (stat), R: +1=+0 (base) +1 (stat), W: +1= +2 (base) -1 (stat)
Skills: 36 skill points off of psion list, not sure which psion
Feats: Psicrystal affinity, Improved psicrystal, Improved psicrystal
PP: 4 = 2 (base) + 2 (stat)
Manifestor level: 1
Powers: 1st: ??? 3 known, not sure what would help the psicrystal attack while leaving the psion free to not get his hands dirty
Special: Benefits of the psicrystal and its 3 traits
Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
HD: 1
HP: 4
Ini: +2
Speed:30', climb 20' *
AC: 17 = +4 (size modifier) +2 (Dex*) +1 (natural armor)
BAB/Grapple: +0/–17
Attack:— (diminutive gives +4 to attack)
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Construct traits, hardness 8, psicrystal granted abilities (alertness to master, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link, deliver touch powers)
Saves:As master’s saves
Abilities:Str 1*, Dex 15*, Con —, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills:Climb +14*, Listen +6, Move Silently +6, Search +2, Spot +6, + masters skills
Feats:Alertness
Traits: 3 traits
At higher levels this would be easier, but I need a good start and suggestions on where to go from here.
If I go straight psychic warrior then the abilites are pretty easy, they have a lot of offensive and defensive powers, but almost no power points to use them with.
If I go psion they are much harder pressed for appropriate offensive and defensive powers.
Any suggestions?
Originally posted by thechocobomafia:
I might be completely off my rocker by saying this, as I don't have the XPH on me right now, but does the PsyWar even GET a psicrystal?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Con is important, but for the most part buying an 18 is a little too costly. for the psychic warror build, go 14 str 12 dex 14 con or something to that effect, what do you expect to do with an 8 strength? psychic warriors have mainly self buffs, the psion could get away with it because he could have a hirling carry him into battleand it wouldn't make a difference, for a psychic warrior you need to be able to carry armor and lay the smack down in melee (or ranged theoretically). I'm really missing how this is going to be effective.
Originally posted by ravashack:
You are missing it because you didn't read the part that says that the *psicrystal* is going to be doing the fighting. The PC is just the PP bank.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
No psionic class get a PsiCrystal by default, unlike arcane casters and their familiars. You need to get a feat to get it.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
And any manifester can get this feat -- including psion, wilder, psychic warrior, fist of Zuoken, and war mind.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
The guy tends to work much better at mid to high levels, although I would love any suggestions that people have for improving it.
Some of the improved psicrystal feats can be dropped for a good enough reason. The stats may also be rearranged.. they are currently placed to maximize the psicrystals abilities (int boosts the psicrystals skills, con boosts its hp, wis boosts the number of powers that may be placed on it).
It might be that it cannot be done without a certain number of homemade feats/powers, but I was hopeing some here might have a few suggestions
Originally posted by phoenixinferno:
I like the Scarface/Ventriloquist feel to this - kudos.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Your psicrystal will always have +0 BAB, what do you expect him to do?
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Actually, no it won't.
A huge debate on the psionics boards and multiple mails to CustServ have shown that, due to unusual wording on Psicrystal Affinity, psicrystals actually have the base attack bonus of a rogue of your hit dice.
And even if you said "bollocks!" to this, and went with the familiar rules, he'd have your base attack.
I think this is feasable. Scion, I seem to recall a build here a while ago that used a whisper gnome under augmented Compression riding a psicrystal under augmented Expansion, and behaved as a cavalier-type build. I forget who made it, though.
Originally posted by rampant:
use psion if your just a PP bank then you would have powers known to spen on indirect powers like charm and dominate or astral construct
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Psywar gets all the good "you get a natural attack" powers, up to and including Form of Doom (which many of us consider the funniest use of Share Powers imaginable), and an assortment of powers that can enhance these new attacks. These are necessary for the attack-less and opposable-thumbless psicrystals. Plus, they get more feats for Improved Psicrystal, and if you want a PP bank, they serve decently if you give them Psionic Body and lots of Psionic Talent feats (which is, I maintain, a great way to play a psiwar anyway. Add Improved Toughess in there and you get a great tank.).
Imagine, at low levels, Psionic Talent, Psicrystal Affinity, and Psionic Body as your three feats (human). Pack on Psionic Talent and Improved Psicrystal, alternating them. When you can afford it or if you have a teammate, get a Reformation or two to customize to your current demands.
This might be the safest approach to your chararacter concept, given how weak the psiwar was in your example. This also spares some ability points for other things, since the Psionic Body feat can help a lot with hit points as is.
By the way, Scion, your idea has intrigued me. I play in a one-shot club around here (easy idea, we rotate DMs every session, and the stories are just random adventures with an assortment of characters. Fits most of our needs well), and I think I'll introduce this concept soon. Especially after we play at a level where the psywar will be as smart or dumber than the psicrystal.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
While I normally dont play in games that allow flaws I think that this character would likely need them to get off of the ground at first level (at later levels it isnt as important, but the first few levels are very weak).
going with tempest stormwinds suggestion we get this:
Human Psychic Warrior 1
Medium humanoid
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 18
Int: 12
Wis: 18
Cha: 8
HD: 1d8+4 (con) +6 (feat) (18 hp)
Ini: -1
Speed: 30'
AC: 15 = 10 (base) +4 (scale mail armor) +2 (heavy wooden shield) -1 (dex)
BAB/Grapple: +0/-1
Attack: -1 (longsword, d8 19-20/x2)
Saves: F: +6=+2 (base) +4 (stat), R: -1=+0 (base) -1 (stat), W: +4= +0 (base) +4 (stat)
Skills: 16 skill points off of psychic warrior list
Feats: Psicrystal affinity, Psionic body, Psionic talent
PP: 4 = 0 (base) + 2 (stat) +2 (feat)
Manifestor level: 1
Powers: 1st: Bite of the wolf (to be manifested on the psicrystal)
Special: Benefits from psicrystal and its 1 trait
Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
HD: 1
HP: 9
Ini: +2
Speed: 30', climb 20' *
AC: 16 = +4 (size modifier) +2 (Dex*)
BAB/Grapple: +0/–17
Attack: — (diminutive gives +4 to attack)
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Construct traits, hardness 8, psicrystal granted abilities (alertness to master, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link)
Saves: As master’s saves
Abilities: Str 1*, Dex 15*, Con —, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Climb +14*, Listen +6, Move Silently +6, Search +2, Spot +6, + masters skills
Feats: Alertness
Traits: 1 traits
While the psychic warrior is missing 2 extra traits, which isnt incredibly meaningful, the psicrystal is missing a point of AC, a point of Int, and the ability to deliver touch powers.
But the psicrystal did gain 3 hp and the psychic warrior gained 2pp. In essence allowing it to fight in more battles for the day.
At level 1 the little guy does 1 damage on a successful bite attack (2 on a crit, yey!
). But they are a tough to kill duo with a good amount of hp and the psychic warrior always going total defensive.This next part it outside of the bounds of part of the goal I had here, but it may make it actually able to be played.
Flaws:
Wuss (flaw) (yeah, it probably needs a better name):
Drawback: Whenever you make any attack rolls you get an extra -4 penalty.
Weak Stomach (flaw):
Drawback: Whenever you make a direct offensive action (basically anything that would negate invisibility) you become sickened. Each round you may spend a full round action to make a DC 20 will save to end this effect.
Sickened: The character takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
I think that both of these represent the character fairly well. Unfortunately no dm's I know have used flaws before
Still though, here is the character with these tossed in:
Human Psychic Warrior 1
Medium humanoid
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 18
Int: 12
Wis: 18
Cha: 8
HD: 1d8+4 (con) +10 (feat) (22 hp)
Ini: -1
Speed: 30'
AC: 15 = 10 (base) +4 (scale mail armor) +2 (heavy wooden shield) -1 (dex)
BAB/Grapple: +0/-1
Attack: -1 (longsword, d8 19-20/x2)
Saves: F: +6=+2 (base) +4 (stat), R: -1=+0 (base) -1 (stat), W: +4= +0 (base) +4 (stat)
Skills: 16 skill points off of psychic warrior list
Flaws: Wuss, Weak stomach
Feats: Psicrystal affinity, Psionic body, Psionic talentx2, improved psicrystal
PP: 7 = 0 (base) + 2 (stat) +5 (feat)
Manifestor level: 1
Powers: 1st: Bite of the wolf (to be manifested on the psicrystal)
Special: Benefits from psicrystal and its 2 traits
Psicrystal
Diminutive Construct
HD: 1
HP: 11
Ini: +2
Speed: 30', climb 20' *
AC: 16 = +4 (size modifier) +2 (Dex*)
BAB/Grapple: +0/–17
Attack: — (diminutive gives +4 to attack)
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Construct traits, hardness 8, psicrystal granted abilities (alertness to master, improved evasion, personality, self-propulsion, share powers, sighted, telepathic link)
Saves: As master’s saves
Abilities: Str 1*, Dex 15*, Con —, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Climb +14*, Listen +6, Move Silently +6, Search +2, Spot +6, + masters skills
Feats: Alertness
Traits: 2 traits
This way they actually have the durability needed to last through a battle and the pp to spend so that they might be able to do enough damage before they are both killed.
I cant decide which power would be best to pick up next level however: Compression or Expansion.
Expansion would allow for more damage (this would be good) but compression would make them both harder to hit and give a pretty hefty bonus to attack rolls for the psicrystal.
Originally posted by hogarth:
If you don't have easy access to the Repair Damage line of spells or Psionic Repair Damage, I'd say forget about this idea: psicrystals can't heal. Otherwise I think you'll need someone with the Craft Construct feat to repair the psicrystal at a cost of 50 gp per hit point which seems a tad expensive.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
When a psicrystal is destroyed you can simply get it back again.
But a dorje with repair damage isnt terribly expensive anyway
Originally posted by ipsissimus:
Sounds like a very high RPG campaign which is great but...your DM should be able to take control or even act as your psicrystal. It's not like the leadership feat and it certainly has a bias outlook on life since it has a personalty strand.
I would suggest going psion over psywarrior, so when you get to higher lvls you won't get pummelled by either the enemy for delaying to long arguing with your psicrystal or your party members for not be proactive enough in combat.
...we had a similar character in our campaign a while ago, where his raven talked for him and spoke for him unless the recipient was of noble blood...none in the party obviously was noble blood nor did we have any chance to get any in us vs. on our weapons. That didn't last very long. The idea sounds fun but in a long term game it tends to get annoying, so if you can figure out how to make it fun for everyone I say...more power to you and enjoy.
Originally posted by hogarth:
The XPH says nothing about how to replace a psicrystal so that's something that depends on your DM. I guess you could use the rules for getting a new familiar -- just wait 366 days (367 days in a leap year). If your DM allows you to create a new one in (say) 1 round, go for it!When a psicrystal is destroyed you can simply get it back again.
But a dorje with repair damage isnt terribly expensive anyway
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Shame you can't give the Psicrystal feats - otherwise you could give it the Leadership feat and make the PsyWar the cohort
If other races were available you could go for some kind of Fey with a very small size and maybe something like invisibility at will. That way no-one need ever see you to attack you.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
You may notice that psicrystals DO get feats. Unlike familiars, they actually gain HD, which means -- like every creature in the D&D game -- they get feats. In the 20th level version of this build, which showed up in the 100^10 Optimization Challenge, had a lot of combat feats.Shame you can't give the Psicrystal feats - otherwise you could give it the Leadership feat and make the PsyWar the cohort
If other races were available you could go for some kind of Fey with a very small size and maybe something like invisibility at will. That way no-one need ever see you to attack you.
And by the way, what benefit would come with assigning the psywar as the cohort?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Why not play the PsiCrystal from the begining? Psicrystal turned character is a cool thread about an high level psion's psicristal. When its master died, the psicrystal kept his personality and the humanoid shape his master gave him, and he continued itself to gain levels as a psionic character, using an modified warforged race.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Synchronicity is terribly broken (what else is new?) when used with a psicrystal.
Simply keep manifesting synchronicity until your psicrystal has enough actions to kill the BBEG, and then the rest of your party.
Non-broken powers to use:
- Expansion and Reach - enables the psicrystal to fight without having to get in the opponent's square
- Combat Transformation - Good BAB and more hit points. If you manifest it on your psicrystal instead of yourself, you will still be able to manifest powers.
- Vigor - Even more hit points!
- Claws of the Beast or Form of Doom - Yes, it is funny to see a tiny gem grow huge claws.
Also, take ranks in Use Psionic Device so your psicrystal can perch on your shoulder and blast things with dorjes.
Originally posted by ipsissimus:
unless it's "published" and not assumed that psicrystals do to the RAW there's no way outside of money, cash, money, cash, farming tools, will I be able to convince him that my psionic familiar has he refers to it is able to take feats.
...if you can find an example of a psion with lvls published in a d20 book that lists the psicrystal having it's own feats then sure, if not. It's like one of those, imp natural attac/monk unarmed attacks infinite loop threads where you're either for it or against it.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
find me an intelligent creature that does not have feats for some reason.
The psicrystal has hd so it should gain feats based on the rules unless its own rules override it.
Its rules do not override it.
Hence, the psicrystal gets feats.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
The more intelligent entity would be in charge
Oooh, imagine an evil psicrystal that bonds to manifesters, entices them into using feats to improve it, then later it drains all their PP and kills them.
Originally posted by jedrious:
sounds lie a sucubus that got mindswitched with a psicrystalThe more intelligent entity would be in charge
Oooh, imagine an evil psicrystal that bonds to manifesters, entices them into using feats to improve it, then later it drains all their PP and kills them.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
I mean, a familiar relationship is already superior to a cohort. Cohorts can't share powers.The more intelligent entity would be in charge
Oooh, imagine an evil psicrystal that bonds to manifesters, entices them into using feats to improve it, then later it drains all their PP and kills them.
Consider this, too -- if you take Leadership, you could get a support character. You now have the psicrystal, the Psychic Warr-- er, Puppet, and the cohort.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
combat transformation has a range of personal, so you can't manifest it on your psicrystal without manifesting it on you
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
Might want to reread the psicrystal section of share powers
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Are there any references for this in the ExpPsiHB? I can't find any mention of their BAB. It would be really cool for psicrystals to have better bab than some of their masters
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Psicrystals are type Construct.Are there any references for this in the ExpPsiHB? I can't find any mention of their BAB. It would be really cool for psicrystals to have better bab than some of their masters
They have a special stipulation on their HD and HP, saying, respectively, "As master" and "half master's". This means that, unlike familiars (which merely "are treated as if they had" hit dice), psicrystals actually gain HD as their master does.
Their HP is not tied to their HD, given how it has a specific rule attached to it.
However, everything else is. And they're CONSTRUCT HD, which include 3/4 base attack bonus.
Note how, unlike familiars, there's nothing saying that the psicrystal uses its master's base attack bonus.
Conclusion: a psicrystal has a base attack bonus equal to a psychic warrior of appropriate level.
Note that there are no base classes, and only one prestige class (two with Ghostbreaker) that have full base attack, however.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Ah, this makes a lot more sense now. This makes them a bit better than a wizard's familiar, as it should be (since it costs a feat, while wizards get their familiar more or less for free).
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I'm not sure the character would simply retreat into the background.... so what if his Psicrystal gets a 15 int eventually? Don't forget --- the "puppet" still has 12 int and more importantly-- 18 wis --- to start with. Intelligence isn't everything. The crystal is smarter, but the master is far and away wiser and more cunning. Still, it's a cool idea. Consider it yoinked!
Originally posted by hovnarr:
How is the PsiCrystal doing any fighting at all, even with Bite of the Wolf, with a strength of 1? I would use an Egoist for this path instead, manifesting Metamorphosis on it come level 7. That way you're not stuck with the horrible stats of the crystal and can use your PsiCr much like a versatile Astral Construct. In fact, if you're mainly interested in the "no blood on my hands" concept, just going straight Shaper(or Wilder)/Constructor and dropping the PsiCr idea might be the best thing for you to do.
Originally posted by CanineLord:
How 'bout going Nomad--->Uncarnate?
Talk about the Psion half of the equation just "fading into the background". Stick the Uncarnate in the wall of a dungeon and have him shadow his psicrystal completely unseen/undetected.
Originally posted by hogarth:
Psion Uncarnate is really quite a poor class. If you wish to be incorporeal, be an Unbodied instead (same number of manifester levels for a level 20 character, plus bumps to all stats, deflection bonus to AC, etc.).
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
It isnt terribly efficient, but is there a better option at level 1? At least he gets one point of damage a round or so..lol.. It isnt like he will be easy to kill at least!
By the time this character hits level 7 he'll have a ton of options, many of which will be good. The low level is the problem
what exactly is the egoist going to do at level 1 anyway?
That is a completely different character. This guy is made to take best advantage of his psicrystal
Originally posted by Lokiyn:
The biggest dificulty with psicrystals is that they find it hard to qualify for the majority of feats that have a stat requirement. Althought later on you can cheat a little and give your crystal an item to boost its stats that is for later in the game. in addition to that there is the unfortunate problem of qualifying for many psionic feats that require a manifester level, which cannot be obtained through the talent feats.
Frakly what i have found to be the most efficient use of the psicrystal is to give it the ride chain of feats which only require it to have a rank or two in ride. This is used in conjunction with an item that allows the psicrystal to change form. For example there is an item in the A&Eg that allows your psicrystal access to a polymorph that lasts 24 hours and is relatively inexpensive.
What you do with this is have the controller manifest spells through the psicrystal to charm an opponent and have the puppeteer pilot its new body, using its enthrall (ex) ability.
If you feel that using the psicrystal as the source of a power isn't enough your next resort is either an item or to take as many Improved psicrystals as possible to pump up the hd of the cystal to the point where the crystal can manifest a power on its own.
Possibly if you feel that you can convince your party to agree have the next BBEG succumb to subdual damge or some other method of subduing him for your psicrystal/Puppeteer's new "host"
or if your feeling munchkiny claim that as your leadership feat you seek out and convince puppetters to join you and your cause, they are only 1/4HD so you could seed a lot of powerful creatures with puppeteer for your army.
Originally posted by drowsmurf:
hey im sorry to burst your bubble here... but on page 207 of the XPH it says under Combat that the Psicrystal has HD "equal to the masters HD (counting only levels of psion or wilder)" so i dont think Psy Warrior works for your character...
i hope im wrong though, cause this is an awesome idea!
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
Which is an error, given how it contradicts EVERYTHING ELSE based on psicrystals, which is based off of your levels in psionic classes. Including Psychic Warriors.
There's a couple holdovers from partial revisions in the text -- this is one, the mention of bonus PP coming from only one score is another, stuff like that -- which is contradicted by earlier material in the book (in this case, Psicrystal Affinity and the rules on them in the Psion section, or the entire Multiclass Psionic Characters thing).
Originally posted by Lokiyn:
Going on with a quick to read chart here goes the progression of a BGWM Psion Build
Psion 1 Psicrystal 1 Feat<br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 2 <br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 3 Feat<br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 4 <br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 5 <br />Psion 1 Psicrystal 6 Feat<br />Psion 2 Psicrystal 7 <br />Psion 3 Psicrystal 8 <br />Psion 3 Psicrystal 9 Feat<br />Psion 4 Psicrystal 10 <br />Psion 5 Psicrystal 11 <br />Psion 5 Psicrystal 12 Feat<br />Psion 6 Psicrystal 13 <br />Psion 6 Psicrystal 14 <br />Psion 7 Psicrystal 15 Feat<br />Psion 8 Psicrystal 16 <br />Psion 9 Psicrystal 17 <br />Psion 9 Psicrystal 18 Feat <br />Psion 10 Psicrystal 19 <br />Psion 10 Psicrystal 20 <br />Psion 11 Psicrystal 21 Feat Psicrystal Power<br />Psion 12 Psicrystal 22 <br />Psion 12 Psicrystal 23 <br />Psion 13 Psicrystal 24 Feat <br />Psion 14 Psicrystal 25 <br />Psion 15 Psicrystal 26 <br />Psion 15 Psicrystal 27 Feat <br />Psion 15 Psicrystal 28 <br />Psion 16 Psicrystal 29 <br />Psion 17 Psicrystal 30 Feat <br />Psion 18 Psicrystal 31 Psicrystal Power<br />Psion 18 Psicrystal 32 <br />Psion 19 Psicrystal 33 Feat<br />Psion 20 Psicrystal 34 <br />Psion 20 Psicrystal 35
Giving you by level 20 a level 35 Psicrystal with 12 Feats of which 5 are epic feats. Has a B.A.B. of +15/+10/+5 with an epic bonus to b.a.b. of 7 giving it an attack pattern of +22/+17/+12 no including ability modifiers of course.
Originally posted by scion_of_coldshard:
epic bonus to BAB? would the psicrystal qualify to get that? he isnt actually a 'level' higher. Am I missing a rule somewhere?
