The Book of Exalted Deeds - It's Here! (merged - full ToC posted)

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there!

Can someone please list the Monsters and the Lords of Good.

Thanks.

 

[BOZ]

Reasons given for the mature label were as follows: This book deals with ethics and morality in a serious manner. Another one is that several of the abilities, feats, monsters, or other things are drawn from aspects of real-world religion, which is a touchy subject to some people.

that's about what i figured.

 

[LuYangShih]

Because the situation described is so utterly ridiculous and hackneyed as to be irrelevant. Two beings of utter evil incarnate stand before the Paladin, no doubt guilty of endless depravity and wickedness throughout their existences. But they "love" each other, so it constitutes a moral crisis as to the proper course of action? Please.

Evil BBEG: Behold, I shall soon massacre the entire village below with my amazingly painful spell of doom.

Paladin: Nay, you shall not do so. Today you face the justice of the righteous, evil one.

Evil BBEG: Ha! You cannot harm me! I am in love with that Succubus over there! It will no doubt take you days of prayer and contemplation to come to a decision as to what your course of action should be, and by that time, it will be too late! BAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!

Paladin: NOOOOOOO.

 

[FrankTrollman]

I think that the point is that even evil people do some decent stuff from time to time. Hitler did some nice water colors, and even while he was out slaughtering 13 million of his own people he was with the other hand feeding the poor and clothing the sick.

If you're a paladin you should be thinking about that sort of thing. That doesn't mean that you don't kill Hitler - but it does mean that you have to come up with a new mechanism to feed the poor and clothe the sick after you whack his head off and release everyone from the Death Camps.

I think that it's a great thing that he BoED apparently brings up stuff like that.

-Frank

 

[JPL]

Because the situation described is so utterly ridiculous and hackneyed as to be irrelevant. Two beings of utter evil incarnate stand before the Paladin, no doubt guilty of endless depravity and wickedness throughout their existences. But they "love" each other, so it constitutes a moral crisis as to the proper course of action? Please.

Evil BBEG: Behold, I shall soon massacre the entire village below with my amazingly painful spell of doom.

Paladin: Nay, you shall not do so. Today you face the justice of the righteous, evil one.

Evil BBEG: Ha! You cannot harm me! I am in love with that Succubus over there! It will no doubt take you days of prayer and contemplation to come to a decision as to what your course of action should be, and by that time, it will be too late! BAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!

Paladin: NOOOOOOO.

I'm thinkin' this book questions the idea of "evil incarnate."

It's perfectly OK to play a game where orcs are somehow evil on a genetic level...that's always the feeling I got from Tolkein.

But once your world has one lawful good orc...killing orc babies ceases to be extermination and turns into murder.

If "evil" always means beyond redemption, without any redeeming qualities whatsoever...then fine, go kill stuff and sleep soundly at night.

But what if that succubus or mind flayer genuinely loves its mate? To kill the evil, you have to kill the love, too.

What if that wizard you mention has children? What if they are watching? What if he loves them --- really loves them, as much as a wicked man can love anything?

What if you are fighting a character like Magneto --- ruthless and vicious, but on some level honorable, whose turned against humanity after his experiences in the Holocaust?

 

[Joshua Randall]

As soon as Hitler and the Holocaust are mentioned in any Internet-based discussion... well... *pfft*

To attempt to drag this thread back on track, I will mention that I also just bought the BoED and will try to answer those questions I can while hiding the book under my work papers.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Can someone please list the Monsters and the Lords of Good.

Monsters
The Deathless Type
Aleax
Archon (Owl, Sword, Throne, Warden)
Asura
Bariaur
Crypt Warden
Eladrin (Coure, Firre, Shiradi, Tulani)
Guardinal (Equinal, Musteval, Ursinal)
Hollyphant
Leskylor
Moon Dog
Quesar
Rhek
Sacred Watcher
Saint
Sanctified Creature
Swarm, Divine Wrath (Apocalypse Frog, Bronze Locust, Deathraven, Sunfly)

Exalted Gods
Ayailla, goddess of light
Chaav, god of joy
Estanna, goddess of hearth and home
Lastai, goddess of pleasure, love, and passion
Phieran, god of suffering, endurance, and perseverance
Valarian, god of the forests

Edit: spacing.

 

[Voadam]

I too would be interested in what they do with celestial hierarchies and powers.

Are there saint rules?

 

[LuYangShih]

Except that the creatures described are always Evil. They are physical manifestations of Evil itself, brought into existence in realms of pure wickedness. To say that the Paladin should even consider sparing them because of one possibly redeeming characteristic is patently ludicrous.

I was looking forward to this book because I thought it might create a standard response for tough moral situations, by D&D rules. Instead, it seems that it is going to do nothing more than add to the problem already present.

On an unrelated note, I seriously tire of the female-female pairings seen in so many RPG products nowadays. It is blatant pandering, and does not really fit within the framework of most fantasy worlds.

 

[diaglo]

On an unrelated note, I seriously tire of the female-female pairings seen in so many RPG products nowadays. It is blatant pandering, and does not really fit within the framework of most fantasy worlds.

Psssstttt....Ray Silver is female.