wedgeski
Adventurer
I'm only railing against the word used in the thread title. It is far from "crappy". In many ways it exceeds the offline CB. It does, however, still have a ways to go in several important areas.
The CB is still crappy
- Thread starter Dannyalcatraz
- Start date
Ryujin
Legend
You see, I'm of a completely different mind. From a purely functional standpoint, leaving the newer content aside, I see the current online CB as falling well short of the offline CB and exceeding it in no way. To me, that defines "crappy", in this context
In my book, a program that doesn't work pretty much the same way every time you fire it up on the same machine in the same way you did it before is crappy.
I mean seriously, I went from a relatively pleasant experience with the first time to spending 2 hours getting the thing to load properly to getting kicked out of the program for no discernable reason. Same machine, no computer settings changed, no security settings changed, no browser settings changed.
AND it put incorrect info on a power card for the first PC!
How is that NOT crappy?
As someone who let his DDI subscription lapse, but will probably re-up at some point, I'd like to hear more about this. Other than being up-to-date, how is the online CB better than the offline CB?
Stumblewyk
Adventurer
I think the difference of opinions regarding the Online CB is a result of the fact that many people simply don't experience any of the problems many other people are complaining about. To those of us (myself included) who aren't experiencing difficulties with the Online CB, it's a perfectly serviceable application.
Now, since I've done work in web application development, I am of the opinion that if it's not working well enough for the majority to use it easily, then the application is still flawed.
So, yeah, for you, the CB is crappy. For me, it's not. But in general terms - it's still not right.
IanB
First Post
In part because there's no particular evidence that the CB specifically is actually to blame for the problems you're having, given the essentially flawless performance other people are reporting.
The combination of browsers (and patch levels of those browsers), OSes, drivers, hardware, etc., that can affect how a program like this is actually fairly staggering, and even the biggest developers can't test and ensure that their stuff works with every weird combination people have.
Ryujin
Legend
Also can't rule out the possibility that it's a server(s) loading issue, since so many people comment on *inconsistent* behaviour
It's MUCH better organized, making things easier to find, and loads much quicker for me than the offline one did. I also don't have to tweak my firewall for the umpteen times the old one used to connect for information upon start up. If there is a "crash" your information is not lost and you can reload from where you left off.
There are two wonky things where the old one was nicer: Point Buy is slower as it updates for each numeric change and you delete an item under the "Sell" tab in the marketplace. I usually start with 'assign an array' and then go to Point Buy to adjust. Otherwise I much prefer the new one.
IanB
First Post
The biggest things missing for me at this point are the ability to specify custom deities and the ability to add bonus feats or ignore feat prerequisites (particularly so that you can give appropriate Channel Divinity and/or Domain feats to characters who worship the non-enterable custom deities...). With those two things added (and maybe some less terrible feat sorting) I'd be quite content.
IanB
First Post
Yes, that in particular is annoying, and the first thing that leaps to mind. Rod Expertise is under armor training for example, and while I understand that the mechanics of the feat support that, sort of, it is not the place a warlock or invoker is going to think of to go find their expertise feat.
Style feats being mixed into the categories instead of in their own style section is another thing I don't think works very well, since they have 3 different benefits and they don't always fit the same category. Except not all of them, because lesser style feats DO get their own category.
I could go dig up more examples of things that don't seem to go where they're slotted (or not slotted) but I think you get the idea.
This is not a weird, tricked-out computer.
Given that this is a new, unmodified virus free computer, running the browser it shipped with, with no changed settings or added software between the first flawless use and the second, trouble-plagued one, the evidence would lead one to believe the misbehaving program is the one with the problem.
And again, it screwed up the text on it's own power card- calling something Augmentable that was not- and THAT can't be anything but an issue with the program itself.
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Ryujin
Legend
To be fair, issues with things like power cards existed in CBC also. None of the items that my Warlock had, that added to the distance of teleports, ever reported the additional distance for example.
The problem with having the online CB run reliably, on even a brand new computer, is that there's a mode of data transfer involved that is out of the control of both parties; provider and user. Internet routing can get pretty funky, at times, with the occasional hop from Seattle to Omaha arriving by way of Istanbul.
And there's server loading, as I've said before, which is not within the control of the user. No matter how clean and fast your computer is, you can only run as fast as the data comes in.
With an offline programme, you are in relative control of the user experience. You can troubleshoot why things behave the way that they do. You can rule out reasons for inconsistent behaviour, as they generally involve interaction with other software. We no longer have this ability.
The problem with having the online CB run reliably, on even a brand new computer, is that there's a mode of data transfer involved that is out of the control of both parties; provider and user. Internet routing can get pretty funky, at times, with the occasional hop from Seattle to Omaha arriving by way of Istanbul.
And there's server loading, as I've said before, which is not within the control of the user. No matter how clean and fast your computer is, you can only run as fast as the data comes in.
With an offline programme, you are in relative control of the user experience. You can troubleshoot why things behave the way that they do. You can rule out reasons for inconsistent behaviour, as they generally involve interaction with other software. We no longer have this ability.
Fair enough.
Okay, that worked, thanks!
This required some experimentation. Here's my findings:
- changing dpi has zero effect
- oddly, switching from colour to black/white improves quality a lot
- changing the mode from 'web' to 'print' results in a vast improvement for the colour version
- changing image compression from 'jpg' to 'flate' seems to slighly improve it further
I've attached images of the results from 'web' and 'print' modes for comparison.
So the print quality is now okay for me.
Regarding my other issue of lacking source filters / campaign settings:
Changing sort order to 'source' is not a good solution. It's about as convenient as flipping through the books.
Maybe I'm just spoiled by the old builder, but this was sooo much better previously!
So, I'll modify my verdict from 'crappy' to 'workable'.
Attachments
CAFRedblade
Explorer
Speaking of the new versus old character builder. Has anyone seen, or tried themselves to figure out a way to pass the dnd4e file to the older builders standalone character sheet viewer program. The Classic/Original character builder called the viewer, and passed the file to it somehow, just wondering if there were a way to do so just using an exported Online CB file.
There is enough that is similar in the dnd4e file between versions, that it might be possible, depending on how the viewer program receives the information.
Or I may just be dreaming about perfect worlds..
I really liked the options to move, and re-jigger the character sheets in the older version's viewer program.
There is enough that is similar in the dnd4e file between versions, that it might be possible, depending on how the viewer program receives the information.
Or I may just be dreaming about perfect worlds..
I really liked the options to move, and re-jigger the character sheets in the older version's viewer program.
You can export from the new builder, then open the exported file in the old CB and use the viewer from there. Unfortunately not everything displays properly, since theme powers for example aren't present in the old CB.
Here it is a few days later, and the identical problem as before has cropped up: I cannot make a new character because the "Continue" button is simply not present.
However, this time, I figured out how to get around it. Originally, I had been going directly to the login page via my browser history. When I do that, it lets me log in and do everything except create new characters.
However, if I do a Google search for the CB, then follow that link, THEN login, it worked fully. That is asinine.
However, this time, I figured out how to get around it. Originally, I had been going directly to the login page via my browser history. When I do that, it lets me log in and do everything except create new characters.
However, if I do a Google search for the CB, then follow that link, THEN login, it worked fully. That is asinine.
Canor Morum
First Post
Tried the new CB, hated it. It's slow, buggy, crashes all the time and I have to be online to use it.
Fortunately there is a way to update the old CB with Essentials and Dark Sun but I don't think I'm allowed to post details here.
Fortunately there is a way to update the old CB with Essentials and Dark Sun but I don't think I'm allowed to post details here.
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