The Confederate Flag

[tomBitonti]

Actually, folks are being forced to change names. One big case is the Washington Redskins. California is working on a law which would forbid the use of the name.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/17/california-bill-redskins_n_7607356.html

Specifically:

The California state Senate Education Committee voted 7-1 on Wednesday to approve legislation that would ban four of the state’s high schools from using “Redskins” as their mascots. Lawmakers and Native American activists are now calling on the full Senate to grant the bill quick passage.

I imagine there are other restrictions, for example, by sports organizations. (I thought there was a prominent sports organization which just banned Redskins as a name, but can't find the reference.)

Thx!

TomB

 

[Morrus]

Actually, folks are being forced to change names. One big case is the Washington Redskins. California is working on a law which would forbid the use of the name.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/17/california-bill-redskins_n_7607356.html

Specifically:



I imagine there are other restrictions, for example, by sports organizations. (I thought there was a prominent sports organization which just banned Redskins as a name, but can't find the reference.)

Thx!

TomB

I stand corrected!

 

[Umbran]

Aknowledging the egregious mistakes of ancestors doesn't invalidate your existence, it confirms your humanity.

Sometimes, the rhetoric gets a bit overdone, though. Sometimes really fully acknowledging some mistakes are the same as saying, "You, personally, should not have been born." Or, "You, personally, owe your physical existence to the pain my ancestors felt." That's not a constructive way to hold a conversation on making the world *now* a better place.

 

[Kaodi]

This world we live in ISN'T the best of all possible worlds. Human history sans genocides & other atrocities would probably be better, and reparations (or other symbolic apologies) is better than saying "yeah, it happened- get over it."

Substitute "humanity" for "nation" in my rant and you will see why I think this is still completely wrong. Humanity is the people that exist, just as a nation is a people that exist. Expressing a preference for the existence of hypothetical people over actual ones is just nonsensical.

Maybe the real issue however is that in the game of causality humanity is of no more importance than any other species. No matter how you play with human history, others things will still suffer the savage game of life as usual. Wishing for a change to a kinder human history is merely wishing for an alternate set of giraffes to suffer disease and predation.

Also, it is a mistake to think I am suggesting anything about how we ought to think about history other than thinking it was not something bad done to us. I am not suggesting we forget how slavery caused current conditions (it did), stop thinking that slavery was bad (it was) or that present conditions are not bad (they are). Rather just that it is pointless and probably even insidious to feel that slavery was something bad done to you. Or the Highland Clearances. Or the destruction of the Second Temple. Or the colonization of the Americas. And so on, and so on.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

From forcing the changing sports teams name/logos that originally honored people to those same names/logos now being offensive to some while others of the same demographics still love them as it.

FLAG ON THE PLAY!

I think that you'll find that the majority of those names being changed either involved stereotypes or outright racist epithets that- if you polled the people so "honored"- you'd find they ALWAYS found those names to be at least somewhat offensive. A closer reading of the article you linked to will tell you that

...the ongoing controversy over the NFL franchise's name has reignited decades-long fights at the state and local levels.

This isn't a new fight, it has been going on for more than a generation. It's just now getting into the spotlight.

Seriously, you can probably count the number of Native Americans who have used "redskin" as a positive term for their people on your fingers & toes.

As for the Washington Redskins, no new laws are being passed to change their name. They're being pressured by people, not governments. That they lost their trademark right because the name is a racial epithet is simply a correct application of existing law.

 

[Umbran]

The symbolism, the reasons for something no longer matters. If it offends even one person, it must be removed. Period.

That is rather an overstatement. The battle flag thing wasn't "one person" being offended. It has been tens or hundreds of thousands (perhaps million) of people offended, over decades. It isn't a sudden, new thing, you know. We've known it was offensive to many for a long time.

Does removing a battle flag from a public building remove gang violent, poverty, racism, substance abuse, crime, intolerance, distrust, lawlessness, mob mentality, riots, etc.

No.

Does it make one's community safer? Does it address the social, political and economical issues people face everyday?

No.

Will it prevent a particular event tomorrow? Probably not. But, may things be different in years to come because of well-chosen actions like it? Perhaps. Removing what is, in effect, a symbol of state acceptance and approval of racism can have an impact on how people look at things in the long run. There can now be kids who grow up *without* its acceptance being nearly so ubiquitous - kids who are learning that it isn't okay to rub it into the faces of others, or having their faces rubbed in it. The long-term cumulative effect may be notable.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Substitute "humanity" for "nation" in my rant and you will see why I think this is still completely wrong. Humanity is the people that exist, just as a nation is a people that exist.

Hmmm...

So why is this wrong? Because since every nation who came after said terrible events required those events to happen in order to come into existence, it has the effect of implying that those nations were a mistake, that they should not exist, or that there existence is somehow unjust.

(Edited as suggested by the original poster)

No, I don't.

It is just as important for nations to apologize for acknowledged wrongs as it is for individuals. Making mistakes is part of existing. Learning form those mistakes- and apologizing for them- is a sign of maturity and growth.

(And honestly, while those terrible events may have shaped those nations, they were not objectively necessary conditions for those nations to exist. America might still be great- or even greater- had not the country engaged in slavery of Africans and genocide of Native Americans.)

If you're a Christian sort, you might recall that even God apologized for The Great Flood- vowing never to do likewise again- and gave us the rainbow as a symbol of that.

 

[Kaodi]

(And honestly, while those terrible events may have shaped those nations, they were not objectively necessary conditions for those nations to exist. America might still be great- or even greater- had not the country engaged in slavery of Africans and genocide of Native Americans.).

This America you are talking about might have the same name as America but it is not America. America is the people that exist right now. The people that exist right now would not be better by not existing unless their lives are worthless.

 

[Kaodi]

Maybe it would help if I suggested stopping thinking about history as things and events and thinking of it as people and living things.

 

[Alzrius]

Nobody has forced anybody to do anything. People change these things themselves because they feel it's the right thing to do, a decision that is entirely appropriately theirs to make. Let's stick to the actual truth here, eh?

Don't get too hung up on the term "forced." Public pressure and coercion may not be "forcing" someone to do something per se, but when (tens of) thousands of outraged people are signing petitions, staging protests, and generating bad publicity all around, many organizations will comply under the influence of these private pressure groups.

Just look at what happened with trying on a kimono at the Museum of Fine Arts, for example.