The Confederate Flag

[Hussar]

Which nation is?

The solution is that if Aboriginals want to be Canadians they can. Québec will not stand between them and their desire to stay affiliated with the federation.

We had some success with negociating accords with Aboriginals. The Peace of the Brave is one such successful accord. The Cree leader who signed the treaty even recommended that Crees vote for the Parti Québécois, Québec's independentist party, after it was done. Not too shabby for would be oppressors.

There fact of the matter is, there isn't one solution for the issues that plague Aboriginal nations. Each have their problems and they need to be delt separately Success and failure will be met a long the way. The important things to keep in mind is communication and respect.

Heh. The anglophne minority is better treated than the francophone minority is treated in Canada. All laws are translated to English systematically and they get translaters if needed at trials. Not something foudn systematically in Canada for francophones. Anglophones in Québec have institutions and budgets not found in say Manitoba or British-Colombia. Anglophone schools are well funded and they have their own school boards. They also have anglophone hospitals funded by every Québécois. Schools and hospitals are disappearing for francophones in the rest of Canada. You can live your entire life and not speak a word of French in Québec. They are fine. Worried, I'm sure, but fine. No concentration camps for them.

LOL. Who pays for your hospitals? Who pays for your schools? It sure as heck isn't you. Quebec, in its entire history, has never been a have province. Quebec, for its entire history, has had to take handouts from the Federal government in order to keep your province running.

You realise that in Ontario, you can go your entire life and not speak English too right? It's not like you're all that unique in that.

 

[Hussar]

"Join us, or be screwed as an enclave?" Yeah, great choice.



Allow me to restate - at the moment, you couldn't legally discriminate against Anglophones in Quebec, correct? Is the sovereignty movement dedicated to a new constitution that would prevent discrimination against anglophones?



In an absolute sense, the only things that are inevitable are death and taxes, yes. But, as I note above - you can make the constitution for the new country part of the referendum - "If we leave, we leave under the following rules...." So, everyone knows that they are getting into before they choose. Is that being done?

It depends on what you mean by discriminate. Are French signage laws a form of discrimination (French signs must be given prominence and English signs are to be kept to a minimum)?

The funny thing is, Quebec has had several referendums over the past century. And every single time, Montreal votes to stay in Canada and the rest of the province be damned. Goldomark keeps pointing at Ottawa, but, it's not Ottawa that keeps Quebec in Canada. It's Montreal.

 

[Umbran]

It depends on what you mean by discriminate. Are French signage laws a form of discrimination (French signs must be given prominence and English signs are to be kept to a minimum)?

Well, in USA, we don't go out of our way to put up signs in Spanish, even in areas where there's a sizable minority that speaks it in preference to English.

The major difference is that, at this point, the folks here who don't speak English are generally immigrants, while Anglophones can have lived all their lives in Quebec. In Quebec's case, I'd think all official signage and documentation ought to be in both languages, whoever runs the place.

 

[Hussar]

Not quite what I meant. In Quebec it is illegal to have an English only sign. It is also illegal for an English sign to be bigger than the French one. This applies to all signs, including private business signage.

In Ontario, there are no sign laws but all federal roads must have signage in both languages.

 

[Umbran]

Not quite what I meant. In Quebec it is illegal to have an English only sign.

The issue of discrimination comes up when a minority doesn't have what it needs to get by in a reasonable manner. Mandating the language of the majority be present isn't so much discrimination as good sense.

A quick search tells me that in Quebec, something like 80% of the people have French as a dominant language. Surely, the local government isn't going to be using English-only signage, and not having your signs in French would be self-limiting to most businesses in the province anyway. Practical reality should make that law kind of superfluous.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Well, I know of pretty sizable neighborhoods down here in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex of Texas where I can drive around and see signs- business, not municipal- in predominantly foreign languages...


...like Korean.

 

[Hussar]

Downtown Toronto looks like that too.

And Umbran, while I agree that municipal signs are fair enough, this applies to private business as well. Which is discriminatory. If I as a business owner want to put up signs in any language that should be my choice no? Telling people they may not use their language is discriminatory. Those 20% should have the option.

 

[Ryujin]

The issue of discrimination comes up when a minority doesn't have what it needs to get by in a reasonable manner. Mandating the language of the majority be present isn't so much discrimination as good sense.

A quick search tells me that in Quebec, something like 80% of the people have French as a dominant language. Surely, the local government isn't going to be using English-only signage, and not having your signs in French would be self-limiting to most businesses in the province anyway. Practical reality should make that law kind of superfluous.

58. Public signs and posters and commercial advertising must be in French.

They may also be both in French and in another language provided that French is markedly predominant.

However, the Government may determine, by regulation, the places, cases, conditions or circumstances where public signs and posters and commercial advertising must be in French only, where French need not be predominant or where such signs, posters and advertising may be in another language only.

1977, c. 5, s. 58; 1983, c. 56, s. 12; 1988, c. 54, s. 1; 1993, c. 40, s. 18.

59. Section 58 does not apply to advertising carried in news media that publish in a language other than French, or to messages of a religious, political, ideological or humanitarian nature if not for a profit motive.

1977, c. 5, s. 59; 1988, c. 54, s. 2; 1993, c. 40, s. 19.

http://www2.publicationsduquebec.go...h/telecharge.php?type=2&file=/C_11/C11_A.html

 

[Umbran]

And Umbran, while I agree that municipal signs are fair enough, this applies to private business as well. Which is discriminatory. If I as a business owner want to put up signs in any language that should be my choice no? Telling people they may not use their language is discriminatory. Those 20% should have the option.

If I get what you said right, they don't tell people they cannot use their language. They tell people that they must use at least French. They may *also* use their own language. A requirement to include a thing is not the same as a prohibition.

As a business open to the public, you agree to any number of restrictions on what you can and cannot do - your rights of expression are limited in that public sphere. In many historic towns in Massachusetts, for example, a business owner does not have rights to make their business facade look any way they wish. They are often limited to retaining a particular historic feel, or having their building be under three stories tall, and so on.

This is not to say that I agree with some of the attitudes I am seeing involved in this issue, but the point of signage does not strike me as an issue in and of itself. If you want ot do business, you need to have French signage. Big fat hairy deal.

 

[Umbran]

Well, I know of pretty sizable neighborhoods down here in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex of Texas where I can drive around and see signs- business, not municipal- in predominantly foreign languages...


...like Korean.

And in both Boston and San Francisco, there are districts where business signs are largely in Chinese.