D&D General The Crab Bucket Fallacy

[Neonchameleon]

They just need to fix it.

The issue is likely the designers were replicating something they personally had no interest in

Thing is I'm not sure it can be fixed while remaining a monk and within the paradigm of 5e. I think you can produce a workable subclass there certainly (which is what D&Done has done) - but it's IMO a monk with Sfx not an elementalist. I'd want four subclasses (although storm can cover one) either from druid or warlock.

For a pyromancer I still like my Warlock Arsonist subclass. "You have a little voice in the back of your head that whenever you look at something says 'wouldn't it look better on fire?' And gives you the power to set it on fire. This includes when you look in the mirror."

 

[Vaalingrade]

The question to ask yourself while advocating compromise is whether you think the Aberrant Mind as Psion and the current Artificer are an improvement over there being a void. If you think that they are a bad thing then you're the one advocating for no compromise and that you should hold out for 100% rather than the common elements.

The 'eh, better than literally nothing, better stop trying' attitude is how we got here with 5e in the first place.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We have a Psion. It's called the Aberrant Mind. We have an Artificer.

What happened was that grognards refused to compromise on the one thing common to all warlords (Inspiring Word restoring hp) and by doing so drove any meaningful version of it out of the game as part of the anti-4e edition war.

The question to ask yourself while advocating compromise is whether you think the Aberrant Mind as Psion and the current Artificer are an improvement over there being a void. If you think that they are a bad thing then you're the one advocating for no compromise and that you should hold out for 100% rather than the common elements.

Everything I want out of 5e is available through 3pp. Outside of niche situations like Adventurer's Guild, none of us need WotC to play 5e anymore, so what does it matter where a game element that does what you want comes from?

 

[Micah Sweet]

5e has psionics. It even has a power point Psion in the Aberrant Mind that can augment its abilities the way psions of yore could augment their powers by upcasting them and can trade slots for points losslessly.

What 5e does not have is literally 70 pages of spells to support its caster-psionicist the way 2e and 3.X did. And that's how a choice can be anathema. 5e just isn't interested in publishing 70 pages of rules outside the PHB just to support a single non-core class. And as a DM I'm not interested in letting you run a non-PHB class with 70 pages of rules.

And if you want psionics to be explicitly different to magic 5e also has the Soulknife, the Psi Warrior, and the Astral Self Monk - which unlike the Psion work more like the psionicists I read about in other sources than slightly tweaked mages. It's also made the consistent world building decision to tie Psionics to the Far Realm.

You're not even playing 5e. I'm curious: if WotC had the Warlord you want, would you?

 

[tetrasodium]

The pet therefore can't be the PCs main source of damage nor health.

Why not
Just the first example I could think of without scouring google for magicalgirl anime

Anime seems to do it all the time

 

[Tony Vargas]

It’s weird watching you describe everything so brilliantly earlier and then moving back to this tired old argument.

Tired old argument? Choice? Each side getting to have what they say they want?

I suppose even a reasonable solution does get tired when it's rejected often enough.

You're not even playing 5e. I'm curious: if WotC had the Warlord you want, would you?

Why does everyone ask Neocamelion the questions I'd like to answer?

I did run 5e for a while, as I wanted D&D to succeed (and, in 2014 it seemed downright imperiled), I ran a lot of games to introduce new/returning players to the latest edition... TBF, I quickly shifted my emphasis to the latter, since that's what I saw the most at conventions, I'd do a series of 5 games using a classic module from each edition, Basic, AD&D, 3.x, PF1, & 4e/Essentials, players would be like "Oh, wow, I loved Village of Hommlet" "Yeah, here it is in the latest edition, pretty cool, huh, hardly had to convert it at all"... I found 5e suited to my style of DMing, too.

The Druid, alone ... almost entirely alone, wizard is OK, but just, not the kind of fun it used to be back in the day... makes me want to play 5e... ...sometime, when I get the chance, with a truly most excellent DM, though I'd likely choose reprising my favorite 1e Druid or playing 4e (which has more than one class I like enough to play) or Hero System (I can play whatever I want) or Mage: the Ascension (ditto, oddly enough), or one of the long list of indie games I've been wanting to try for years, but haven't had the energy...
That's, a yes, really. Adding a worthy Warlord to 5e would double the number of classes I'd be excited to play. That's nothing to sneeze at...
And, I realize, I'm old-man rambling, so spoiler tags for those of you who don't need to listen to it all.

Spoiler

You don't need to like nearly all the classes in a class-based game to play & enjoy it, afterall, 4e, I didn't care for strikers or psionics - that was two strikes on the Monk, right there, third strike went all the way back: Orientalism. Monk, Avenger, Rogue, Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock, Barbarian, Assassin... Vampire, Slayer, (that was unintentional) Thief, Scout, Elementalist... I'm probably missing something... all Strikers. Not really on my radar, unless I'm building a pregen. But, hey, that leaves me Warlord, Wizard, Fighter, Artificer, Druid (chopped into 3 pieces, but two of them worth playing, however disappointing), Shaman (quite intriguing, really), Cleric, Paladin, Invoker ... and others that aren't so enticing I can actually remember, them... and then classes like Warden that hit my preferences, in theory, but, well, I've tried 'em and they didn't click.

When I think about it, no edition doesn't have nothing to loving or nothing to be disappointed with. 2e is generally my least-favorite edition (and, I am fully aware how little sense that makes), but it was the only one where priests of different deities/religions could have substantially different spell lists, which, what're you thinking, every other edition? 1e, admittedly, mainly on grounds of nostalgia, is my favorite, but it has plenty of things very wrong with it, and some that I find right that I can acknowledge younger, saner persons might find awful... like Magic-Users are actually challenging to play. 3.x seemed fantastic at the time, but there are still bits that stand out, the Fighter, Tier 5 tho it may reasonably be, was an elegant design - if it wasn't for every other class in the PH, it might've been balanced & viable, too.

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[Minigiant]

Thing is I'm not sure it can be fixed while remaining a monk and within the paradigm of 5e. I think you can produce a workable subclass there certainly (which is what D&Done has done) - but it's IMO a monk with Sfx not an elementalist. I'd want four subclasses (although storm can cover one) either from druid or warlock.

For a pyromancer I still like my Warlock Arsonist subclass. "You have a little voice in the back of your head that whenever you look at something says 'wouldn't it look better on fire?' And gives you the power to set it on fire. This includes when you look in the mirror."

It can be fixed.

It requires having a catrip for each element and a wall for each element.

The problem is of course because the designers either didn't get the Element monk or didn't care to include the material, the main spells for the elements monk came AFTER the PHB.

 

[James Gasik]

And even his martial healing can’t bring him back from 0 hp.

It's a little hard to heal one's self when you're dying, can even Clerics do that?

 

[FrogReaver]

It's a little hard to heal one's self when you're dying, can even Clerics do that?

Nope. But that’s also the biggest complaint of non-magical shout healing - shouting people up from 0 unconsciousness. The fighter healing ability completely avoids that concern and so is a lot more palatable to that group.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Nope. But that’s also the biggest complaint of non-magical shout healing - shouting people up from 0 unconsciousness. The fighter healing ability completely avoids that concern and so is a lot more palatable to that group.

Technically, I think that the biggest complaint regarding shouting up people's hit points comes from the deaf community.