D&D 2E The dark elf +2EL, The satyr +2EL but....

[Chikago666]

Hello all. I was looking to create a Satyr Character with ECL 3. The Satyrs have +2EL, but must get 5 levels of fey (Savage Species, MM). The Dark elf and The satyr arent so different (maybe just a little) AND the dark elf can go Class levels in ECL 3. WHY The satyr Cannot get Class levels in ECL 3 too? Its just not fair.

 

[Camarath]

Why not just ask your DM to let you take the Satyr with out it's racial HD?

 

[avin]

all those bonus with a low ecl? no way!

 

[Camarath]

Satyr characters possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
—Medium size.
—A satyr’s base land speed is 40 feet.
—Low-light vision.
—Satyrs have a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, and Spot checks.
— +4 natural armor bonus.
—Natural Weapons: Head butt (1d6).
—Special Attacks (see above): Pipes.
—Special Qualities (see above): Damage reduction 5/cold iron.
—Automatic Languages: Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Common, Elven, Gnome.
—Favored Class: Bard.
—Level adjustment +2.


That does not seem that far off to me. LA +3 might fit a little bit better but only IMO if you allow the Pipes ability's DC to scale with class levels. If you remove the Pipes ability I think it fits perfectly well as a LA +2 race.

 

[Chikago666]

Simon says

I think thats fair.

 

[avin]

5/iron alone is a powerful feature by itself. look at the low rate barbarians get their damage reduction, not to mention the pipes, of course.

 

[Chikago666]

.... maybe remove the dr 5/cold iron and the pipes but raise something, like some of the skill bonuses or the head butt damage.

or let the 5/cold iron and remove the pipes and +2 natural armor..

 

[Camarath]

5/iron alone is a powerful feature by itself. look at the low rate barbarians get their damage reduction, not to mention the pipes, of course.

IMO the DR 5/cold iron is worth LA+1, the rest of the Satyr's abilities are worth a LA+1, and the Pipes ability is worth a LA+1. All totaled this come to a LA+3 which is fair if the Satyr makes good use of his Pipes (especially if you count the Satyr's class levels when calculating the Pipe's DC). But with out the Pipes I think the Satyr should have LA of +2.

 

[Technik4]

LA +3.

Those stat adjustments are NICE, and if you compare to the dark elf at +2, way better (without a single negative, even!).

You guys are cutting Cold Iron/5 way short. Remember, there is no "catch all" material and for a PC this power alone is LA +1 or +2. Against I'd say easily 50% of your enemies it will be equivelant to DR 5/-. This power is like the sniverblin's +4 dodge to everything, its huge.

Also, lets not forget +4 Nat. Armor. Dark Elves have SR so they both have defenses (with their ups and downs) but I'd say +4 Nat Armor is more powerful, all around (especially at lower levels).

The natural attacks don't count, and pipes don't count if you don't let the DC increase.

+4 to a bunch of skill checks is, once again, better than the dark elf. Dark elves get +2 to 3 skills, satyrs have +4 to 5 skills, a difference of 14 (!) skill points. I would say this and the stats could be LA +2.

+10 base speed is also a nice bennie, not nice enough for an LA on its own, but not as insignificant as most race's bonuses (Orc Blood? +1 attack Goblinoids?).

Overall I would place them at a +3 LA, solid, without class levels. If you add in the pipes they make for a weak +4 LA. Compare them to the half-dragon template, half-fiends, and some other LAs. Honestly the best route is probably just to take the satyr levels (with an LA +2).

Technik

 

[The Souljourner]

I think you could get away with LA +2 and 2 or 3 levels of fey. Damage reduction is worth +1 all by itself, stats are worth +1, and the natural armor is worth +1. Now, add in the BIG bonuses to a ton of really good skills, low light vision, and +10 movement... that's at least worth another +0.5.

And you want this to be a flat out +2? Hell no. The fey levels are there because it's too good for +2 LA, but too high a level adjustment without levels doesn't work well. Would you play a 4th level character with 1 hitdie? I wouldn't.

So... I do think 5 fey levels is crap, seeing as they are certainly not good levels by any stretch of the imagination. However, 2 or 3 I could see.

-The Souljourner