The Deadliest Archer of Them All

[Taren Seeker]

The Cleric is the most powerful archer going. A couple of people did excellent work posting a number of spells and abilities that the cleric can use in any given combat. The PA can have +5 arrows, true, but only a limited amount and he'll go through them incredibly quickly. A cleric can have an almost limitless number of +5 arrows and a +5 bow thanks to Chain GMW. Not to mention the clerics greatest plus: Miracle. He can Miracle a Tenser's to add another +10 to his attack, or even to cast Holy Sword on his Bow making it do double damage vs any evil opponent.

The PA's power shot is sick, true, but he gives up accuracy. If a PA gets a cleric to cast spells on him whenever he needs then yes, he can surpass the archer cleric, but we're talking about standalone characters. Without crazy bonuses to his attack he's not going to be able to take maximum advantage.

BTW, Power shot combined with Many Shot is a BROKEN combo (no matter how much of a dirty word some think that broken is). My reading of Many Shot shows that you would indeed get the power attack on every arrow, as power shot is not precision based damage. (IMO whoever gave the PA class power shot needs to have his head examined for giving one of the greatest advantages of a melee fighter away for the price of a few levels of an archer class. But that's beside the point.)

Even if the PA can do a bit more damage with crits and max power shot the archer cleric still has a ridiculous amount of advantages. Target immune to piercing? Offensive spells. Concealed? True Sight or Blindsight. Who has the better AC? Magic Vestment, Haste, Shield of Faith, Holy Star etc. all guarantee the winner there. Mobility? Air Walk or Fly. Saves? You've gotta be kidding. Clerics are save whores and can protect themselves against the reflex save effects that they have trouble with. Skills? Well OK clerics suck in that area. Hit points? Empowered Endurance easily keeps them competitive, and Tenser's puts them way over. Survivability? Spells like Spell Resistance, Death Ward and Spell Phylactery (Heal) keep the cleric going. And shooting.

Being a powerful archer is more than just how much damage you can dish out with a bow with one shot; it's also how versatile you are and how well you can take it as well as dish it out. The Archer cleric is hell on wheels with his bow, but even if you take the bow away he can still bring down the house.

 

[Numion]

WEll, I doubt Power Shot applies to all arrows. THere is a lot of confusion about what damage applies and what does not.

I thought that the "precision" limit meant that any damage bonuses that apply only within 30 ft are calculated only once. Is the Power Shot ability of this kind?

 

[Xarlen]

Idly, I'll toss in that while the PA could have the +5 bow, the cleric could have a +1 Holy Sonic and Lightning bow, then drop a GMW on it to make that a +5 Holy Sonic Lightning Bow. So that'd be +5+2d6(Evil)+2d6(energy). Sure, the PA could also have this, but then he doesn't get the extra +4 to hit and damage.

 

[Triumph]

I thought that the "precision" limit meant that any damage bonuses that apply only within 30 ft are calculated only once. Is the Power Shot ability of this kind?

Power Shot works at any range, so it would apply to all arrows in Manyshot.

 

[hong]

I think the first person to say the "b" word in a debate instantly concedes that they lost.

Oh, there are many ways to concede a mass debate.


Hong "some more obvious than others" Ooi

 

[Chun-tzu]

The Cleric is the most powerful archer going.

No way. An Archmage Incantatrix Wizard is the most powerful archer of them all. He's got ridiculous improved, metamagicked Wish, Meteor Swarm, and Time Stop spells. He doesn't even need a bow!

 

[CRGreathouse]

No way. An Archmage Incantatrix Wizard is the most powerful archer of them all. He's got ridiculous improved, metamagicked Wish, Meteor Swarm, and Time Stop spells. He doesn't even need a bow!

Yes, this seems the general trend of the thread...

 

[Taren Seeker]

No way. An Archmage Incantatrix Wizard is the most powerful archer of them all. He's got ridiculous improved, metamagicked Wish, Meteor Swarm, and Time Stop spells. He doesn't even need a bow!

Wow that's really clever...So the fact that the PA lags behind the Archer Cleric in damage and accuracy until the application of one cheesed out feat (Many Shot) is proof positive that the PA rulez while the Cleric isn't allowed to use his spells and abilities in a comparison of actual effectiveness?

Even if you discount attack spells and the like, there is still a synergy between a cleric's spells and his effectiveness as an archer. As I said before, the ability to affect targets with concealment or other magical defences, handle mobility issues and the archer's own survivability (it's kind of hard to be the greatest archer EVAR when you don't live past the first round) are all related to how powerful (read: effective) an archer you are.

And by the way, I'm not some cleric cheering section. I actually find it irritating that spells like Div Power and Div favor persisted allow the cleric to overshadow so many other combat style characters. I play in the RPGA where I play a powerful frontline melee fighter as well as an Archer Mage and I've seen it happen time and time again. Pesky clerics.

 

[Chun-tzu]

You're arguing what's already been argued. No one is disputing that a high-level cleric archer is more powerful and more effective than any fighter-type. In D&D, magic is king, and any super-buffed up character trumps a non-buffed up character.

Does the cleric archer beat an archery-focused PrC at his own game? You say yes, but I (along with others on this thread) disagree. Sure, high level spells will compensate for the strengths of the Peerless Archer or Arcane Archer or others, but in my book, that's not archery, and we all know, high level spells trump everything.

All this has been covered already, and if people have not changed their minds at this point, I don't imagine they're going to.

 

[Kai Lord]

Wow that's really clever...So the fact that the PA lags behind the Archer Cleric in damage and accuracy until the application of one cheesed out feat (Many Shot)...

See, you lose again. I never complained about "cheesed out persistent spells" I just provided a Peerless Archer ability that surpassed it.

And Manyshot is the coolest feat in the game. Legolas says so. Funny it isn't even as powerful as certain metamagic....So stop complaining. Clerics full on suck as archers until they get high enough level to cast GMW, Persistent Divine Favor, and Persistent Divine Power. So any "lagging behind" is done by the cleric hardcore until he hits 15th level.

The Peerless Archer has been Power Shotting foes into oblivion since level 10. At 15th the cleric gets to add Persistent DP to his goofy all-day buffs, and the PA still just trumps him with Power Shot, or Power Shot/Manyshot when one arrow isn't enough. If cover is involved, forget it, the PA can afford even greater Power Shots and still have higher to hit bonuses than the Cleric.

Of course this is all moot in light of the omnipotent Peerless Deepwood Sniper.