D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

[Garthanos]

Well that is clearly not what the want, so I think that is off the table.

I don't personally see how those limitations are helpful, but maybe they are to some. I like the animal handling check idea, but I am not fond of taking agency away from the player.

Those two seem incompatible... if you want them to maintain agency then they keep their mind or their agency is blown

 

[dave2008]

Those two seem incompatible... if you want them to maintain agency then they keep their mind or their agency is blown

No, let the player roleplay the intelligence of the creature the polymorph into.

 

[Garthanos]

No, let the player roleplay the intelligence of the creature the polymorph into.

Maybe not you... but notice how Micah wants it to be some limit that makes it harder on the PCs? Sounds like he is planning for the DM to either virtually play the character so he can make it harder or maybe just restrict what that means in some way : for instance that does not let the Dinosaur understand it has friends ie to me it very much sounds like, agency gone ("you takes your chances" on what the dm decides)

 

[Micah Sweet]

Maybe not you... but notice how Micah wants it to be some limit that makes it harder on the PCs? Sounds like he is planning for the DM to either virtually play the character so he can make it harder or maybe just restrict what that means in some way : for instance that does not let the Dinosaur understand it has friends ie to me it very much sounds like, agency gone ("you takes your chances" on what the dm decides)

Yeah, pretty much. You get turned into a t-rex, you have the intelligence of a t-rex, you act like a t-rex. Make sure you're pointed at the enemy!

 

[Undrave]

Or you like your intelligence like the spells says and take your chances? Do we have to look for every opportunity to make the game easier on the PCs?

Or we get rid of Polymorph...

 

[Vaalingrade]

Or D&D takes swing number 500 at Polymorph and, as usual, crack the catcher in the skull with the bat while trying.

I think the 'this spell literally just makes you a determent to you and the party's goals' is like... third worst in the long line of polymorph revamps.

The problem is that you can't have a spell that changes with every Monster Manual and the fanbase won't let you make it a spell that uses a stat block that's not the one from the MM because there's a solid chunk that think the game rules are a direct reflection of reality.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or we get rid of Polymorph...

Yeah, let's remove more options from the game.

 

[Hussar]

Well that is clearly not what the want, so I think that is off the table.

I don't personally see how those limitations are helpful, but maybe they are to some. I like the animal handling check idea, but I am not fond of taking agency away from the player.

I get that, but, then don't bother putting in the Int change then. If you want the character to act like an animal, maybe force Wisdom saves to take actions. The more "Out of character" for that animal, the higher the save DC. Otherwise, your action is determined randomly. Or, better yet, a chart with half a dozen options, make a Wis save - flat DC - maybe a 10 or thereabouts and if you save, you can choose your action from the list, otherwise, it's a random roll.

Note, I'm not above lowering the DC down to, say, 5. That way, most of the time, you get to do what you want, but, once in a while, you don't.

 

[Lanefan]

So what should the rules say here?

The monster stat block for T-rex should give an intelligence range - which it does, at 2 - and the poly'ed character uses that.

It's the stat block that's likely wrong here - the range should maybe be 3-8 - but not the spell.

 

[Lanefan]

Or D&D takes swing number 500 at Polymorph and, as usual, crack the catcher in the skull with the bat while trying.

I think the 'this spell literally just makes you a determent to you and the party's goals' is like... third worst in the long line of polymorph revamps.

Polymorph worked best in 1e when it was a strictly-offensive thing to do to someone else, that no creature would willingly undergo, and that had a risk of killing the target outright. Polymorphing one's self was safer but had its own limitations (and needed more, it's still broken as written); but most important, it was only the caster who could use it, meaning the caster then had to be the one taking whatever risks the poly'ed form was being used for.

Allowing polymorph on allies without risk or drawback is simply broken.

The problem is that you can't have a spell that changes with every Monster Manual and the fanbase won't let you make it a spell that uses a stat block that's not the one from the MM because there's a solid chunk that think the game rules are a direct reflection of reality.

I suspect you'd not be impressed were the Polymorph stat block less advantageous to the PCs than the MM one.

More practically, that would require duplicating the stat blocks for every single monster - the natural form and the polymorph form.