D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D


log in or register to remove this ad



Undrave

Hero
Maybe run away when the mummies show up? These things are supposed to be scary!
Pfff... nobody ever RUNS AWAY in D&D! That's the coward's way out :p


Seriously though, he game does NOT train nw players to consider escaping, or even realize when you're outgunned before a fight breaks out, and, a lot of times, even a dash isn't enough to outpace someone willing to strike you down because of how speeds end up. There's a communication issue there.
 

Pfff... nobody ever RUNS AWAY in D&D! That's the coward's way out


Seriously though, he game does NOT train nw players to consider escaping, or even realize when you're outgunned before a fight breaks out, and, a lot of times, even a dash isn't enough to outpace someone willing to strike you down because of how speeds end up. There's a communication issue there.
That sounds like a job for the Empowered DM!
 


Lanefan

Victoria Rules
(bold added)

The cleric is facing down all four when taking the Dodge action. And since all the action is supposed to be simultaneous (as you say), if they ALL run that is fine, but you should do the whole "A moves and takes the OA, so BCD all know it is safe".
If they all run at once, shouldn't the OA either be against a random one or against whichever one the PC's player chooses, depending how the DM wants to run it?
 


DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
If they all run at once, shouldn't the OA either be against a random one or against whichever one the PC's player chooses, depending how the DM wants to run it?
If they all moved at once, I would allow the player to choose which to go after, personally.

However, if all four are bugbears, which would likely be pretty much identical anyway, random works, too. ;)
 

(bold added)

The cleric is facing down all four when taking the Dodge action. And since all the action is supposed to be simultaneous (as you say), if they ALL run that is fine, but you should do the whole "A moves and takes the OA, so BCD all know it is safe".
He isn’t focussed on all 4. He just took a swipe at Bugbear A with his AoO. Since combat is simultaneous, he attacked 1 while the other 3 pushed them past him.

To me, the fact the cleric took the Dodge Action is irrelevant. Would you also consider it cheesy if the Cleric attack A, B tried toslip past and got hit with an AoO, then A, C and D moved past him? If not, what is the difference with your scenario?

What about the common scenario I see in play? One PC deliberately triggers an AoO so weaker PCs can withdraw without being downed?

Edit. I see you use a different initiative system. However, my point is that under the default system, an AoO represents something observable in the fiction, and can be leveraged by the PCs.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Edit. I see you use a different initiative system. However, my point is that under the default system, an AoO represents something observable in the fiction, and can be leveraged by the PCs.
The idea the highly skilled combatants can only react to one but can make 4 attacks on their arbitrary time slot (even though the action is supposedly simultaneous) is kind of nonsensical.

For one thing presumably these reactions are exploiting special openings and are easier than the other attacks....
 
Last edited:

You don't want those two or you want them + more options in-between?
I can somewhat understand the 'I want a high level caster to wave a magic wand and it goes away" but I really don't. I also don't want "we have to search out a high level cleric or have this be permanent"

What I want is in world, if the highest cleric we know is 5th level* we can take some time (between a weekend and a full tenday) and be back up. I also want skilled non casters to have access to this.

*5th isnt pulled out of my butt it is a pattern i have seen with newish DMs in 2e and 5e where all non bad guys cap around 5th or 6th... including 1995 me.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
The idea the highly skilled combatants can only react to one but can make 4 attacks on their arbitrary time slot (even though the action is supposedly simultaneous) is kind of nonsensical.

For one thing presumably these reactions are exploiting special openings and are easier than the other attacks....
Characters should have to make some coordinated rush maneuver (possibly guided by a leader) involving all of them being truly simultaneous instead of stretched out over the 6 seconds based on their initiative... ie to restrict the combatants response to a limited number of opportunity attacks. It should take some effort and group coordination unless the dice simply say he missed (which would mean an accidental coordination).
This is one example of what a Warlord is for planning/triggering that dynamically and an example of why the Battlemaster does not feel like one.
 

Undrave

Hero
That sounds like a job for the Empowered DM!
Empowered DM? What kind of new buzzword is that? Feels like a fancy term for railroading DM :p

You know, this talk about running away brought to mind the Battlemaster's ability to judge if someone is stronger or weaker than them at certain thing. The 'Know your Enemy' feature, which goes like this:

Starting at 7th level, if you spend at least 1 minute observing or interacting with another creature outside combat, you can learn certain information about its capabilities compared to your own. The DM tells you if the creature is your equal, superior, or inferior in regard to two of the following characteristics of your choice:

  • Strength score
  • Dexterity score
  • Constitution score
  • Armor Class
  • Current hit points
  • Total class levels, if any
  • Fighter class levels, if any

I think that should be a base Fighter ability. They can just LOOK at a guy and say 'Yeah I can take him' or 'Oh snap we better not mess with that dude!'. An the number of things you can ask the DM should be equal to your Prof. bonus so you get better at it with time.

There’s a fantastic scene in the first season of Thunderbolt Fantasy where the hero, who is new to the country in the show and thus don’t know anyone’s reputation, goes to try and peacefully settle a dispute with a man known as the Screaming Phoenix Killer. He joins him for a drink at a table (the establishment cleared due to the Screaming Phoenix Killer’s reputation as a merciless swordsman) and they have a sort of amicable talk about their philosophy. Near the end, Screaming Phoenix Killer accuses the hero of being hypocritical about wanting peace and not being willing to fight: he’s been on the defensive since the start. Killer reveals he’s been thinking about cutting him down since the moment the hero sat down, but despite his nonchalant look, he could tell the hero’s defense was ironclad. We then see a montage from Killer’s mind where he imagines a bunch of ways to quickly strike and each time the hero parries the assault with ease.

" “Battle starts when swords are drawn”, only a fool thinks this way. "

I want THAT as a core feature of the Fighter!

What about the common scenario I see in play? One PC deliberately triggers an AoO so weaker PCs can withdraw without being downed?
That makes sense, it's the tough guy distracting the bad guy so his friend can slip away.
 
Last edited:


MPA2000

Explorer
You could always play the game as it was originally intended and that was with three levels. The only reason they added more levels was because of AD&D.
Most young people today don't realize that D&D in it's current form is still the Advanced version which is why there is bell curve to comprehend and retain the rules and mechanics to some extent.

Anyway it's probably too late to do these kinds of restrictions, since video games enable you to play godlike characters and real gods.
 

dave2008

Legend
I can somewhat understand the 'I want a high level caster to wave a magic wand and it goes away" but I really don't.
So you don't want high level magic to solve things. OK, how about rituals?
I also don't want "we have to search out a high level cleric or have this be permanent"

What I want is in world, if the highest cleric we know is 5th level* we can take some time (between a weekend and a full tenday) and be back up. I also want skilled non casters to have access to this.
Well obviously you can do that now, but are you asking for WotC to provide you with "official" rules/guidelines for such things?
 




The Weather Outside Is Frightful!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top