D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

Xamnam

Loves Your Favorite Game
The player is not going to have the same level of control that he had before. Even if you allow the player to act however he wishes, the simple inability to cast any spells is reduced agency if he's a spellcaster, and the lack of hands keeps the fighter from using weapons, so his agency is reduced as well. He can no longer do all the things he used to be able to do. Additionally, the spell also says in the same sentence as the lack of hands and speech affecting spellcasting, "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of the new form..." That portion of the sentence imposes other restrictions to agency that go above and beyond the spellcasting limitations.
-snip-
Actually, the only thing that is unchanged in the polymorph spell is personality. It explicitly limits actions based on the nature(not form) of the new creature, and spellcasting based on lack of hands(unnecessary distinction if nature=form) and speech.
Ah, okay, I see all of the restrictions called out as specifically physical ones, and wouldn't extend those to consciousness/sapience. If language or mechanics like that in Enemies Abound were present, I'd read it differently.
 

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As I mentioned earlier in the thread, WotC isn't very good at judging animal stats. It gives the common house spider a strength of 2, which would allow that little sucker to drag 30 pounds across the floor. Spiders are strong for their size, but there's no daddy long legs that dragging 1 pound anywhere, let alone 30.
I said in another thread that no one in 5e is weak but BOY does that prove it... even str 3 is 45lbs and that is craxy
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Ah, okay, I see all of the restrictions called out as specifically physical ones, and wouldn't extend those to consciousness/sapience. If language or mechanics like that in Enemies Abound were present, I'd read it differently.
It does not mention amnesia about who your friends are either which means to me the DM isnt interpreting as much as sabotaging an ability.

To be clear I really think the polymorph spell is way too bloody versatile and should be restricted to a specialist with the kinds of limit
Polymorph:Raccoon Polymorph: Bear Polymorph:Eagle Polymorph:fish imply.... with involuntary polymorph having some sort of confusion or stun or similar effect... so its not that I do not want it limited.
 




Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Hmmm.. I've owned cats. "Friendship" seems like a pretty strong way to describe that relationship.
Anecdotally, we have two very lovey dovey purr babies that can for the most part get their own food and such so they are pretty independent but still love the attention and visibly seem to miss us extremely when we arent there.
For them "Servant/Potential Servant" seems more likely.
LOL I think we have studies about cats and dogs indicating that dogs are better at scanning human emotion... but the core and more related I have heard is that the reason cats meow into adulthood is because we are parent figures (ummm think how that relates to servant role)
 




Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It does not mention amnesia about who your friends are either which means to me the DM isnt interpreting as much as sabotaging an ability.
How many friends do you think a T-rex had? You are limited to the nature, not form, of the beast you are turned into. The only written exceptions are that you retain alignment and personality. If you retained who you were beyond that, they would have said so.

DMs reading too much into spells is the biggest reason spellcasters seem so much more powerful than martials.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
even an animal knows friend/not friend
I've had cats scratch the hell out of my arm simply because when it came to its "friend" for attention, I scratched a spot it didn't want scratched. It was fine until then. Had my cat been a tiger or lion, I'd probably have been killed by my "friend." A T-rex would be even more dangerous.
 






Lanefan

Victoria Rules
The reason it calls out lack of hands and speech for spellcasting is that there are some very smart animals out there. The giant ape is at 7 and the ape is at 6. That's easily in PC range for intelligence and the rules don't set minimum stats for spellcasting any longer. If a PC rolls a 4 for intelligence, he can choose to be a wizard and cast spells.
This is why some classes need minimum stat standards. Intelligence lower than 9? Sorry, no arcane casting for you.
There is no adversarial DMing going on by telling the player he's going to have to roleplay the intelligence of the beast he is being turned into. That isn't DM vs. Player mentality. It's just an impartial ruling that you happen to disagree with.
Agreed. Never mind the odds are high you-as-player-in-character agreed to be Poly'ed in the first place.
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
With all the talk of T-Rex, I just had to add this little bit...

trex.gif
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Yeh that lawful good character is now homicidal against friends but still somehow lawful good with the exact same personality because the DM who does not really know much about the beast decides that is their nature .. SHEESH this definitely screams the DM is a "not fit for gramma" (if you don't like the word adversarial there are worse)
 

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