pointofyou
Hero
We were able to play 1e without PC deaths and we've had at least one TPK in tier 3.
The game is and always has been as deadly as the people at the table want it to be.
D&D General The DM Shortage
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
The game is and always has been as deadly as the people at the table want it to be.
Faolyn
(she/her)
In my group, literally all but one of the players also GMs, and the one who doesn't says she will when she has a less soul-devouring job.
I think that means we've stolen all the DMs.
But we rotate games on a regular basis so we have no forever DMs and nobody is ever overwhelmed.
I think that means we've stolen all the DMs.
But we rotate games on a regular basis so we have no forever DMs and nobody is ever overwhelmed.
Celebrim
Legend
AD&D 1e is in many ways an extremely low lethality version of D&D because no other edition allows a PC to so outclass and overwhelm the opposition, they are likely to face. Monster level only went up to X. It's the only edition of the game were PC hit points were likely to outstrip the monsters that they fought. Plus, saving throw DCs were static, so unlike more recent editions the odds of you failing a saving throw against a peer level foe went down over time. In modern editions, you could find your chances of making a saving throw actually going down because DCs scaled faster than your save bonuses. Most PC deaths were crowded in the early levels before you had significant time invested in a character.
The actual realized level of lethality varied widely based on what method was actually used to generate ability scores, how generous the DM was with treasure, and how deadly the DM wanted the campaign to be.
In Gygax's AD&D death is below 0 hp (or optionally below -3 hp) - being reduced to zero hp without dying causes unconsciousness, and the loss of 1 hp per round with death at -10.
In AD&D a cleric gets bonus spells based on WIS, and with 14 WIS will have 3 1st level spells memorised.
In AD&D, DEX adds to AC for all armour types; the bonus is +1 per point of DEX above 14, up to +4 at 18 DEX.
In Ggygax's AD&D, the memorisation time is no different for clerics or druids from what it is for MUs and illusionists. And to memorise 1st level spells requires only 4 hours of rest, not 8 (but with no interruptions).
This is not generally the case in Gygax's AD&D. Generally a cleric or druid play picks their spells from the class list. A MU or illusionist player picks their spells from their spellbook, whose contents are determined randomly.
In Gygax's AD&D, there is no WIS requirement for a cleric to cast 5th level spells. 17 WIS is necessary to cast 6th level spells. I think 2nd ed AD&D is the same.
That number appearing is only for a Goblin warren or meeting a Goblin army on the march, not for dungeon encounters. In Appendix C of Gygax's DMG. the number appearing for Goblins on the 1st level of the dungeon is 6-15 (presumably 1d10+5).
Paul Farquhar
Legend
TBH, I think you have me beat!
Paul Farquhar
Legend
D&D was presented as pretty adversarial in the core rules back then. AD&D too. I think Gygax was an adversarial DM. There was material about in magazines, such as White Dwarf, that presented other approaches though. And I brought in things from other early RPGs, such as Traveller and Runequest.
Ondath
Hero
In a hilarious coincidence, I came upon this topic just when my uni's Sci-fi and fantasy club was having difficulties finding enough DMs to organise a one-shot game night through the club chat. I guess the problem is local and global!
Jokes aside, I don't know if there's more of a shortage compared to earlier years of the hobby, but DMs are certainly a rare commodity. I had to start playing by DMing because nobody else around me was willing to run a game, and out of 10-15 people I've ran games for over the last 5 years, I'd say only 5-6 of them ended up DMing regularly. Some of my players want to dip their toes into DMing and run oneshots and maybe even short campaigns, but the task of running a long campaign that goes over 5-6+ levels seems too daunting for most people I know.
As for the reasons why that might be, the scene's explosive growth is probably the biggest reason. Far more people play D&D (or other TTRPGs) than they did at any point in history, and there probably isn't enough DMs for all of them. But I'd say 5E in particular hasn't done any favours to make it easier to raise new DMs. A lot of the advice in DMG is fairly shallow, and I end up relying a lot on stuff I learnt back in 3.5/PF (seriously, the difference in depth between the 3.5 DMG and the 5E DMG is enormous), as well as the advice of older DMs that I see on the Internet (Matt Colville, the Alexandrian, Courtney Campbell... sigh even the Angry GM). If you don't know that there are a lot of unspoken assumptions that older DMs knew but the game never mentions (for instance, the procedure of dungeon delving, which the game never explicitly mentions, and the Alexandrian makes a good point that this causes a generational knowledge gap for new GMs), you end up floundering a lot, and that discourages a lot of people. I hope that the OneD&D DMG will open up some space for these unspoken GM procedures, but I'm not counting on it. If anything, 5E's approach to DM-facing content seems to have become "Here are some interesting 2-3 sentence prompts, we'll give you no guidance or constraints on what to with them, go nuts".
Honestly, there might also be a generational gap. I know that in 3.5/Pathfinder days as well as the early days of 5E, players would thoroughly read the rules and acquaint themselves with most of the sourcebooks. But now, most of my players don't even read the full content of their own race and class, let alone the rest of the book like combat rules, equipment and downtime. It may just be that the way people consume content has changed, and people prefer watching videos about how D&D works than read books and posts about it, but it is sometimes frustrating (even though I love my players to bits).
Jokes aside, I don't know if there's more of a shortage compared to earlier years of the hobby, but DMs are certainly a rare commodity. I had to start playing by DMing because nobody else around me was willing to run a game, and out of 10-15 people I've ran games for over the last 5 years, I'd say only 5-6 of them ended up DMing regularly. Some of my players want to dip their toes into DMing and run oneshots and maybe even short campaigns, but the task of running a long campaign that goes over 5-6+ levels seems too daunting for most people I know.
As for the reasons why that might be, the scene's explosive growth is probably the biggest reason. Far more people play D&D (or other TTRPGs) than they did at any point in history, and there probably isn't enough DMs for all of them. But I'd say 5E in particular hasn't done any favours to make it easier to raise new DMs. A lot of the advice in DMG is fairly shallow, and I end up relying a lot on stuff I learnt back in 3.5/PF (seriously, the difference in depth between the 3.5 DMG and the 5E DMG is enormous), as well as the advice of older DMs that I see on the Internet (Matt Colville, the Alexandrian, Courtney Campbell... sigh even the Angry GM). If you don't know that there are a lot of unspoken assumptions that older DMs knew but the game never mentions (for instance, the procedure of dungeon delving, which the game never explicitly mentions, and the Alexandrian makes a good point that this causes a generational knowledge gap for new GMs), you end up floundering a lot, and that discourages a lot of people. I hope that the OneD&D DMG will open up some space for these unspoken GM procedures, but I'm not counting on it. If anything, 5E's approach to DM-facing content seems to have become "Here are some interesting 2-3 sentence prompts, we'll give you no guidance or constraints on what to with them, go nuts".
Honestly, there might also be a generational gap. I know that in 3.5/Pathfinder days as well as the early days of 5E, players would thoroughly read the rules and acquaint themselves with most of the sourcebooks. But now, most of my players don't even read the full content of their own race and class, let alone the rest of the book like combat rules, equipment and downtime. It may just be that the way people consume content has changed, and people prefer watching videos about how D&D works than read books and posts about it, but it is sometimes frustrating (even though I love my players to bits).
LordEntrails
Hero
Correct, but the published modules from the time period we are talking about did not have that information (generally). I'm not of an opinion one-way or other about location based vs other adventures, I'm of the opinion (related to this thread) that: 1) their has always been a DM shortage, it is not new. 2) Their are more and better tools and it is easier and cheaper to learn to be a DM today than any time in history.
LordEntrails
Hero
Well, apparently my memory is flawed. Woe is me.
To discuss the topics of this thread, I'm of the opinion that: 1) their has always been a DM shortage, it is not new. 2) Their are more and better tools and it is easier and cheaper to learn to be a DM today than any time in history.
Nothing you've stated so far sways me from those opinions.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
I think one issue that is relatively new is there has been some great mythology been built up that DMing is some great skill that you need training in before you can even start. Back in 1982 (when I started), we just did it. Sure, when we started we didn't do it well. But that didn't matter, we did it, we learned, we got better. People shouldn't be afraid to suck at first. And, as a corollary to that, players should take a great deal of care not to be critical of DMs.
One thing the core rules could do better is put a greater emphasis on turn taking as DM, and the need to share the load.
One thing the core rules could do better is put a greater emphasis on turn taking as DM, and the need to share the load.
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