In early levels leap is only two squares, to initiate combat I've had to leap far greater distances
The Dragoon (Heroic Tier)
- Thread starter El Coro
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In early levels leap is only two squares, to initiate combat I've had to leap far greater distances
Kupo has a good point--as written, getting into combat range in the first round probably means that you won't be able to use momentum that round.
I think it might make more sense to just have Leap and boost allow you to jump a distance equal to your speed, and then up it to your speed+2 at level 16.
Is there a particular reason you wanted to have such incremental scaling in the powers?
Perhaps as an alternate to the drake companion, since there has already been discussion of making the drake an optional class feature specific to certain builds, you could have a class feature that gives a +2 to hit whenever you have momentum. This seems like it should be fairly equal with the opportunities for flanking that the drake companion can provide.
I think it might make more sense to just have Leap and boost allow you to jump a distance equal to your speed, and then up it to your speed+2 at level 16.
Is there a particular reason you wanted to have such incremental scaling in the powers?
Perhaps as an alternate to the drake companion, since there has already been discussion of making the drake an optional class feature specific to certain builds, you could have a class feature that gives a +2 to hit whenever you have momentum. This seems like it should be fairly equal with the opportunities for flanking that the drake companion can provide.
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El Coro
First Post
[MENTION=83382]Reydragk[/MENTION]
It's really just part of being low level. By level 9 you can jump 4 squares, which means you spend the next 21+ levels jumping extremely close to your speed (or more than, as you continue to level up).
Is it a little hard to jump from 4 or 5 squares out when you're levels 1-8? Yes, for the first attack you make each encounter.
Here are my reasons for not making it a longer jump at early levels:
1) Some of the abilities (especially paragon and higher) give you extra damage based on the number of squares you jumped that turn.
2) It's a guaranteed jump, without a check, so I feel that it should not be as far as your speed or a regular jump, or else you'd never not use it, even for routine movement.
3) It should feel like you're growing in power as you level up. The two possibilities to this are either starting with a lower leap distance and building up, or starting with a long leap distance and then making it even more ridiculously long (for an at-will) movement.
This being said, the class features have changed somewhat. The drake companion is sticking around, because that's what I initially designed the class around - you are of course free to not use it, but I feel it adds a lot to the class and the damage and abilities are all balanced around having this companion.
However, to address the first turn problem of getting into the fight with momentum, the new class features are:
Skysoul Focus: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls while you have momentum, and gain a +2 bonus to AC against opportunity attacks while moving with Leap or Boost. In addition, the first time you use Leap in an encounter, you may jump up to 2 additional squares.
Drakesoul Focus: Your drake gains the use of its Drakesoul Power (see page XX). In addition, your drake provides combat advantage when flanking with your allies, and deals an additional 3 damage with attacks made while flanking (Level 11: 6 damage, Level 21: 9 damage).
I'm cleaning up the paragon tier of the dragoon, and have made quite a few changes to the heroic abilities - I'll try to have an updated version up sometime soon.
Thanks for the comments and continued interest, hope the new class features solve some of the problems you and Kupo were talking about.
It's really just part of being low level. By level 9 you can jump 4 squares, which means you spend the next 21+ levels jumping extremely close to your speed (or more than, as you continue to level up).
Is it a little hard to jump from 4 or 5 squares out when you're levels 1-8? Yes, for the first attack you make each encounter.
Here are my reasons for not making it a longer jump at early levels:
1) Some of the abilities (especially paragon and higher) give you extra damage based on the number of squares you jumped that turn.
2) It's a guaranteed jump, without a check, so I feel that it should not be as far as your speed or a regular jump, or else you'd never not use it, even for routine movement.
3) It should feel like you're growing in power as you level up. The two possibilities to this are either starting with a lower leap distance and building up, or starting with a long leap distance and then making it even more ridiculously long (for an at-will) movement.
This being said, the class features have changed somewhat. The drake companion is sticking around, because that's what I initially designed the class around - you are of course free to not use it, but I feel it adds a lot to the class and the damage and abilities are all balanced around having this companion.
However, to address the first turn problem of getting into the fight with momentum, the new class features are:
Skysoul Focus: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls while you have momentum, and gain a +2 bonus to AC against opportunity attacks while moving with Leap or Boost. In addition, the first time you use Leap in an encounter, you may jump up to 2 additional squares.
Drakesoul Focus: Your drake gains the use of its Drakesoul Power (see page XX). In addition, your drake provides combat advantage when flanking with your allies, and deals an additional 3 damage with attacks made while flanking (Level 11: 6 damage, Level 21: 9 damage).
I'm cleaning up the paragon tier of the dragoon, and have made quite a few changes to the heroic abilities - I'll try to have an updated version up sometime soon.
Thanks for the comments and continued interest, hope the new class features solve some of the problems you and Kupo were talking about.
Very good points regarding leap. In that light, I think you made the right decision after all, and the Skysoul class feature provides an option for those who just can't wait to get into combat.
I think the change in class features is definitely a step in the right direction. Both features will up the damage by a small but significant amount.
Since flanking already provides a +2, I think changing the drakesoul feature provide a bonus to damage instead of an additional +1 is definitely a more balanced design choice.
Also, I noticed that Spinning Strike and Vaulting Kick both deal [W] damage but lack the Weapon keyword. That strikes me as odd.
I think the change in class features is definitely a step in the right direction. Both features will up the damage by a small but significant amount.
Since flanking already provides a +2, I think changing the drakesoul feature provide a bonus to damage instead of an additional +1 is definitely a more balanced design choice.
Also, I noticed that Spinning Strike and Vaulting Kick both deal [W] damage but lack the Weapon keyword. That strikes me as odd.
El Coro
First Post
Thanks for the comments. Both of those powers have been updated, BTW!
Vaulting Kick is supposed to be as if you smack him really hard with your weapon, then jump off the stunned enemy - but maybe the description should be a bit clearer.
Spinning Strike has been changed to Spinning Kick, and does 1d10 damage at a Melee 1 range.
There have been quite a few other changes too, so I'll try to at least get the updated Heroic stuff up soon - I'm playtesting paragon tier again early next week, so after that I can make the final tweaks on those powers.
Hope to have something up soon!
Vaulting Kick is supposed to be as if you smack him really hard with your weapon, then jump off the stunned enemy - but maybe the description should be a bit clearer.
Spinning Strike has been changed to Spinning Kick, and does 1d10 damage at a Melee 1 range.
There have been quite a few other changes too, so I'll try to at least get the updated Heroic stuff up soon - I'm playtesting paragon tier again early next week, so after that I can make the final tweaks on those powers.
Hope to have something up soon!
kresnik alchemist
First Post
Just had to say that the class looks very good and will be tons of fun to play. I plan using this for my new character starting this weekend.
Looking forward to the updates and Paragon Tier especially!
Keep up the good work!
Looking forward to the updates and Paragon Tier especially!
Keep up the good work!
Hey Kresnik, I'd be curious to hear how your Dragoon character is doing in your campaign. I'm considering allowing it as an option in case I kill any of my PCs, which may happen within the next few gaming sessions--they've been surprisingly resilient, but they've pulled off some shenanigans that they probably shouldn't have quite yet, and now some powerful enemies are gonna be very angry with them.
El Coro
First Post
Hey all, thanks for the continued interest.
I just finished playtesting the paragon tier this past week, so I'll be cleaning up all of the powers and hopefully have them up by next week.
In the meantime, I've uploaded the newest Heroic tier abilities. There have been a lot of changes to a lot of abilities; phrasing, damage, and even some core abilities and class features. I'd recommend just redownloading it and using this one instead, as it'll be less work than updating everything else.
Two of the bigger changes are:
- You can no longer wear scale armor, as the AC was getting far too high for a striker.
- With the Skysoul Focus feature, you can jump an additional 2 squares the first time each encounter that you use Leap. This makes it easier to initiate combat with a jump and using momentum.
You can download it on the first page, but here's another link if you're lazy!
http://www.readyanaction.com/classes/dragoon.pdf
I just finished playtesting the paragon tier this past week, so I'll be cleaning up all of the powers and hopefully have them up by next week.
In the meantime, I've uploaded the newest Heroic tier abilities. There have been a lot of changes to a lot of abilities; phrasing, damage, and even some core abilities and class features. I'd recommend just redownloading it and using this one instead, as it'll be less work than updating everything else.
Two of the bigger changes are:
- You can no longer wear scale armor, as the AC was getting far too high for a striker.
- With the Skysoul Focus feature, you can jump an additional 2 squares the first time each encounter that you use Leap. This makes it easier to initiate combat with a jump and using momentum.
You can download it on the first page, but here's another link if you're lazy!
http://www.readyanaction.com/classes/dragoon.pdf
