D&D 5E The Eldritch Knight...what am I missing?

[GX.Sigma]

I'm looking at the class from a purely mechanical, optimization perspective, and care nothing for "characters".

Ah, then you're looking for the Optimization forum: http://www.enworld.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?363-Character-Builds-amp-Optimization

That's where you should post threads purely about mechanical optimization.

 

[Saggo]

One other note, I think that EKs are designed to be Str melee fighters. Bladelocks are better if you want a Dex ranged gish.

Base Fighters are already potent archers in general. In addition to the general utility and defense all Eldritch Knights get, Archer EKs can focus on getting superb mobility out of spells and abilities like Expeditious Retreat, Arcane Charge, Misty Step, and Haste. Self-Hasting also brings DPR in line with archers like Battlemaster.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Base Fighters are already potent archers in general. In addition to the general utility and defense all Eldritch Knights get, Archer EKs can focus on getting superb mobility out of spells and abilities like Expeditious Retreat, Arcane Charge, Misty Step, and Haste. Self-Hasting also brings DPR in line with archers like Battlemaster.

I second this. Archer EKs rock. Thanks to War Magic they can function as switch-hitters in melee range when necessary, but archer is an excellent primary configuration.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think the only thing that makes eldritchs knights and champions look unfavourable is the frontloadedness of battlemasters. If the started more reasonably with 2 uses per short rest or maybe 3 and with a d6, and catch up at level 7 or so to their old progression, those subclasses would be realtively balanced.
But even with the progression as it is, the extra utility will make up for a lot at low levels.
The first time you meet creatures resistent vs mundane weapons you will bring more to the table than the battlemaster who can only keep up with the expedition of his dice. (2d8+3)/2 averages 6 points of damage. Firebolt is 5.5 and the ability to use an attack spell when it counts will help too. burning hands averages 10.5 damage against several targets.
Dancing light cantrip is also really useful for the eldritch knight.

 

[krakistophales]

Now I'm torn whether to go EK 20 or EK 11/Wiz 9 or EK 10/Wiz 10 for dem 7th level spells. Suggestions? I know 10/10 ill only have 2 attacks, but with the GFB and BB cantrips, most of the time Ill just be doing one magic weapon attack and then a bonus action attack anyway, no?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Now I'm torn whether to go EK 20 or EK 11/Wiz 9 or EK 10/Wiz 10 for dem 7th level spells. Suggestions? I know 10/10 ill only have 2 attacks, but with the GFB and BB cantrips, most of the time Ill just be doing one magic weapon attack and then a bonus action attack anyway, no?

When you saay "dem 7th level spells", are you fully aware that you will not have 7th level spells like Forcecage and Teleport Without Error? You will have 7th level slots, but no way to cast actual 7th level spells, so the only things you can cast will be things like Fireball VII and Hold Person VII.

3 attacks is killer for an archer EK, but it sounds like you want a melee EK. Since you're set on having War Magic for the bonus action attack, why not do as others suggested and go EK 7/Wiz 13 for actual 7th level spells like Simulacrum?

 

[krakistophales]

When you saay "dem 7th level spells", are you fully aware that you will not have 7th level spells like Forcecage and Teleport Without Error? You will have 7th level slots, but no way to cast actual 7th level spells, so the only things you can cast will be things like Fireball VII and Hold Person VII.

3 attacks is killer for an archer EK, but it sounds like you want a melee EK. Since you're set on having War Magic for the bonus action attack, why not do as others suggested and go EK 7/Wiz 13 for actual 7th level spells like Simulacrum?

I'm confused, why not? If you combine 10 levels of wizard and 10 levels of EK it equals a 13th level caster, which on the multiclass chart has slots up to 7th level spells. If your last 10 levels are wizard, then you learn 2 new spells per level, and so long as you have slots for them, you can learn that level spell. So why not teleport and stuff like that?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm confused, why not? If you combine 10 levels of wizard and 10 levels of EK it equals a 13th level caster, which on the multiclass chart has slots up to 7th level spells. If your last 10 levels are wizard, then you learn 2 new spells per level, and so long as you have slots for them, you can learn that level spell. So why not teleport and stuff like that?

Re-read the multiclassing rules on PHB 164, paying close attention to the "spells known and prepared" section and the "slots" section. Multiclassing may give you additional slots, but no additional spells beyond what your single class gives you. The example given is that a Ranger 4/Wizard 3 has 3rd level slots, but no 3rd level spells.

 

[krakistophales]

Re-read the multiclassing rules on PHB 164, paying close attention to the "spells known and prepared" section and the "slots" section. Multiclassing may give you additional slots, but no additional spells beyond what your single class gives you. The example given is that a Ranger 4/Wizard 3 has 3rd level slots, but no 3rd level spells.

So in that case the level of spells you know would be your highest wizard level from level 1 right? So EK 11/Wiz 9 would know 5th level spells and have 1 slot for them right?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

So in that case the level of spells you know would be your highest wizard level from level 1 right? So EK 11/Wiz 9 would know 5th level spells and have 1 slot for them right?

I don't understand the sentence in bold, but:

An EK 11/Wiz 9 would know all the spells of an EK 11 + all the spells of a Wiz 9, so yes, he'd have 5th level spells. But his slots come from the multiclassing table on page 165, 4 3 3 3 2 1. As an EK 11, he'd have 3 wizard cantrips and 8 spells known of levels 1-2 (6 of them have to be evocation/abjuration); then as a wizard he gets 4 more cantrips and (9 + Int bonus) more spells of levels 1-5 that can come from any school and which he can change freely every day to whatever is in his spellbook.

Rather than having only one 5th level slot, he would in fact be able to cast three 5th level spells (one of them as a 6th level spell, e.g. Hold Monster VI); and then Arcane Recovery on a short rest would give him up to one additional 5th level slot per day.