the Epic Gimp

[Jdvn1]

One house rule we used in Funeris's Game, is as follows.
You can only gain Epic progression in the following cases:
1. 20 Full Class Levels, you can progress along the Epic Progression for THAT CLASS.
2. 20 Hit Dice 10(whatever levels)/10 PrC, then you can proceed with the 11th Level (Epic) of the PrC.

How is this different? Normally, you become Epic when you get 21 HD. For a lot of characters, it goes exactly like this.

And Wizards and Sor's don't get penalized. Wizards, I believe, are exactly the same. When they get their 21st HD, they qualify for Epic feats. So they can get more spellcasting with the right feats (just like any Epic caster).

A Wizard could even multiclass into Fighter and still become a stronger caster.

 

[Funeris]

Difference is, they're not getting Epic Feats. They're not Epic. Not until their class (just one mind you) goes above 20 levels.

Fighter 10/Rogue 11? Not Epic in my world.

Fighter 20/Rogue 11? Epic...but only an Epic fighter. Still a 'normal' rogue.

That was the difference. Not sure it came across clearly.

Just my two coppers.

 

[Jdvn1]

Difference is, they're not getting Epic Feats. They're not Epic. Not until their class (just one mind you) goes above 20 levels.

Fighter 10/Rogue 11? Not Epic in my world.

Fighter 20/Rogue 11? Epic...but only an Epic fighter. Still a 'normal' rogue.

That was the difference. Not sure it came across clearly.

Just my two coppers.

Does that mean BAB progression and save progression says non-Epic? If so, do PCs get a fifth iterative attack when the get to BAB +21? It'd also encourage Ftr19's to never take Ftr20, since their BAB progression drops.

 

[TheYeti1775]

Does that mean BAB progression and save progression says non-Epic? If so, do PCs get a fifth iterative attack when the get to BAB +21? It'd also encourage Ftr19's to never take Ftr20, since their BAB progression drops.

No they don't get the extra attack at a +21 BAB

 

[Crothian]

so, you are just going to totally discourage multi classing by making them even weaker???

 

[Jdvn1]

No they don't get the extra attack at a +21 BAB

What about the progression? Is it still 1-for-1?

 

[Funeris]

yes BAB and SAVE progressions remain non-epic until you hit the wall, as it were. Even deities are limited in their iterative attacks...If not to 4 then at 5...I believe. So they will never have more iterative attacks than a god.

If I ever see a 19th level Ftr, well that'll be the day. I don't see it happening. As it is now, 3 characters have already multiclassed. And a few of those will probably hit multiclass penalties (non-human). I doubt I'll ever see a 19th level Fighter. So I doubt that will ever come up.

But again, to clarify a little more (due to a slight typo) Fighter 20 isn't epic either. Fighter 21 would be. Once they take that 21st HD in a class, then they have access to Epic Feats, progressions, etc.

But, I also don't have to worry about this right now. They're all at or about 6th level anyway. If they make it that far, then I'll review my house rules and make any corrective procedures I deem necessary.

 

[Funeris]

so, you are just going to totally discourage multi classing by making them even weaker???

The game isn't necessarily about strength. Hack and slash games...sure be strong. Its all you need. I hope that the story is more important then "I can kick anyone's A$$". Eh. Again, that's just my opinion. Maybe a few of the players feel differently.

 

[Jdvn1]

If I ever see a 19th level Ftr, well that'll be the day. I don't see it happening. As it is now, 3 characters have already multiclassed. And a few of those will probably hit multiclass penalties (non-human). I doubt I'll ever see a 19th level Fighter. So I doubt that will ever come up.

Well, with that house rule you'll never see it. Nor a 21 Ranger, nor a 21 Barbarian, nor a 21 Paladin, nor any other class with a good BAB.

A lot of people don't have to worry about Epic levels too much (especially at around level 30 or 40, when the differences get more obvious), so whatever.

 

[Crothian]

The game isn't necessarily about strength. Hack and slash games...sure be strong. Its all you need. I hope that the story is more important then "I can kick anyone's A$$". Eh. Again, that's just my opinion. Maybe a few of the players feel differently.

but at the same time you will create a big differnece in power levels between some one that becomes epic at level 21 and one who does not. By acheieving epic early the epic character will have massive options and power availible to them.