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The Evolution of Tieflings in D&D: Interviews with Zeb Cook and Colin McComb

I'd certainly use the PHB entry and the expansions in other products as the basis for the more diverse Tieflings in 5e, I've given a little thought to how one might handle variant abilities. Of course the appearance and origins of the characters are up to the player's personal choice.

It's very useful to hear from Zeb Cook and McComb about Tielfings, but I think Monte Cook's opinions also matters a lot on the subject.
 

Comments

Azzy

Explorer
Crazy how you guys get so upset over being "railroaded" into some Asmodeus lore when half of you create your own settings to play in and the other half of you make up everything you do and don't play real games.

Tieflings are pretty popular right now. And I like the homogenized look. And I like that there is a homogenized look. And I like the literary value they have. By giving them actual symbols to attach too aesthetically, you create something of actual artistic value, instead of the "well lol it can look like ANYTHING hehe xd" of 2E.

Not that it matters. You guys can make them just like 2E Tieflings! No problem! I just don't get the need for ancient grognards from beyond time and space to :):):):) on something just because it is new. We people who are new to D&D with the latest edition don't need to be told every other tiefling thread how much cooler "ye old planetouched" were.
"Conform gronards or be castigated. My opinion is the right one."
 

dave2008

Adventurer
The fact that WotC created them in 5e to meet ( I would assume, as you are assuming fan art correlates with the origin or appearance people want to/or are actually playing when choosing tieflings in 5e) some sort of demand...
Yes and again I agree (as I thought I stated in the original post). The post I was responding to insinuated that people were demanding Teiflings of a different appearance
 

Eric V

Explorer
Crazy how you guys get so upset over being "railroaded" into some Asmodeus lore when half of you create your own settings to play in and the other half of you make up everything you do and don't play real games.

Tieflings are pretty popular right now. And I like the homogenized look. And I like that there is a homogenized look. And I like the literary value they have. By giving them actual symbols to attach too aesthetically, you create something of actual artistic value, instead of the "well lol it can look like ANYTHING hehe xd" of 2E.

Not that it matters. You guys can make them just like 2E Tieflings! No problem! I just don't get the need for ancient grognards from beyond time and space to :):):):) on something just because it is new. We people who are new to D&D with the latest edition don't need to be told every other tiefling thread how much cooler "ye old planetouched" were.
Bolded for truth. Besides, within that homogenized look, there's bound to be variations, like in any other race.

Like anything else from 4e, haters gonna hate. :)
 

oreofox

Explorer
Some people may "not know better", and think tieflings MUST look like someone dressed in a devil costume for halloween. Are they wrong? No. There's nothing inherently wrong with what the modern tiefling looks like, as a whole. Personally, I don't like EVERY SINGLE TIEFLING IN EXISTENCE MUST look like that, because it being in official art work, it basically means "this is what a tiefling looks like and nothing else."

As for demanding a different look for tieflings, people are. Most of them are probably those who played pre-4e when tieflings had variable appearances. If they are DMs, then it is super easy to do so. Just say in the game you are running, tieflings are similar to how they were pre-4e, or they don't exist at all.
 

Aldarc

Adventurer
Some people may "not know better", and think tieflings MUST look like someone dressed in a devil costume for halloween. Are they wrong? No. There's nothing inherently wrong with what the modern tiefling looks like, as a whole. Personally, I don't like EVERY SINGLE TIEFLING IN EXISTENCE MUST look like that, because it being in official art work, it basically means "this is what a tiefling looks like and nothing else."

As for demanding a different look for tieflings, people are. Most of them are probably those who played pre-4e when tieflings had variable appearances. If they are DMs, then it is super easy to do so. Just say in the game you are running, tieflings are similar to how they were pre-4e, or they don't exist at all.
I think that there is more variation in 4e art than you are giving credit. The variation is not to the degree of pre-4e art, but there is enough conformity that newcomers have an easy time recognizing a tiefling in the book, which is important. But I also don't think that just because people are customizing how their tieflings look does not mean that they have a concept of or hankering for pre-4e tieflings.
 

Hussar

Legend
"Conform gronards or be castigated. My opinion is the right one."
Gimme a break.

No one is telling you to conform.

You are being asked to not fling poo every single time the issue comes up.

He’s got a point. There is NOTHING stopping you from having 2e style tieflings in your game. Zero. Zip. Nada.

So why are you trying to force everyone else to adhere to your tastes?
 

Imaro

Adventurer
Gimme a break.

No one is telling you to conform.

You are being asked to not fling poo every single time the issue comes up.

He’s got a point. There is NOTHING stopping you from having 2e style tieflings in your game. Zero. Zip. Nada.

So why are you trying to force everyone else to adhere to your tastes?
How about you give us a break... we know you have a personal hate on for all things Planescape...

But were is anyone trying to force anything... it's a thread about tieflings and opinions on which ones various posters liked were given. This tangent/ argument only started because someone tried to use fan art as a basis of proof/ to insinuate that the majority (Instead of just themselves) preferred the 4e/5e phb tieflings.
 
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Azzy

Explorer
Gimme a break.

No one is telling you to conform.

You are being asked to not fling poo every single time the issue comes up.

He’s got a point. There is NOTHING stopping you from having 2e style tieflings in your game. Zero. Zip. Nada.

So why are you trying to force everyone else to adhere to your tastes?
I don't see anyone forcing anyone to adhere to 2e-style tieflings. I see people that don't like the new version—then here you are trying to shout us down for not liking youre preference and PointsofInspiration saying that that don't to adhere to his tastes are categorically wrong.
 

Eric V

Explorer
I don't see anyone forcing anyone to adhere to 2e-style tieflings. I see people that don't like the new version—then here you are trying to shout us down for not liking youre preference and PointsofInspiration saying that that don't to adhere to his tastes are categorically wrong.
That's not what s/he did...where in the post do you see that?
 

Hussar

Legend
How about you give us a break... we know you have a personal hate on for all things Planescape...

But were is anyone trying to force anything... it's a thread about tieflings and opinions on which ones various posters liked were given. This tangent/ argument only started because someone tried to use fan art as a basis of proof/ to insinuate that the majority (Instead of just themselves) preferred the 4e/5e phb tieflings.
Huh. I guess I imagined this:

View attachment 107531

WHich isn't trying to tell anyone that they're doing things wrong. No, not at all.

EiGHT freaking years we've had to listen to a group of edition warriors bitch and whine about how they don't like the new Tieflings. Funny thing is, Tieflings are now, apparently, one of the most popular races after the big three (human, elf, dwarf). In fact, the only race more popular is ANOTHER 4e race - dragonborn.

This isn't about my dislike for Planescape. This is about my dislike of Planescape grognards constandly bitching and whining about how WotC just doesn't get tieflings. Hrm, tieflings have gone from a tiny niche race that only a small handful of tables ever actually saw to one of the most popular races in the game. Yeah, I guess WotC has no idea what they are doing and everyone else is just completely out of touch.

:erm:

EVERY SINGLE TIME any conversation about Tieflings comes up, we have to listen to the same tired old song and dance. You don't like 5e tielflings. Fantastic. No problems. There's NOTHING forcing you to play them. Not a single damn thing. Instead we have to listen to warmed over edition war garbage, yet again, for the TEN THOUSANTH time, because, well, we have to make sure that every one knows that the new tieflings suck and everything old was good.
 

Imaro

Adventurer
Huh. I guess I imagined this:

View attachment 107531

WHich isn't trying to tell anyone that they're doing things wrong. No, not at all.
Nope its art expressing a dislike for something or is that not allowed now??

EIGHT freaking years we've had to listen to a group of edition warriors bitch and whine about how they don't like the new Tieflings. Funny thing is, Tieflings are now, apparently, one of the most popular races after the big three (human, elf, dwarf). In fact, the only race more popular is ANOTHER 4e race - dragonborn.
So dont read it. DISCUSSION forum means you dont get to dictate only one view can be expressed.

This isn't about my dislike for Planescape. This is about my dislike of Planescape grognards constandly bitching and whining about how WotC just doesn't get tieflings. Hrm, tieflings have gone from a tiny niche race that only a small handful of tables ever actually saw to one of the most popular races in the game. Yeah, I guess WotC has no idea what they are doing and everyone else is just completely out of touch.

:erm:
Lol...but WotC offered non 4e/Asmodeus variants... in the first supplement they produced for 5e... so no one is saying they dont know what they are doing. The argument is because some people want to speak to what the majority are thinking/wanting with because fan art as their supporting evidence.

I also have to question. How do you know how popular Tieflings were prior to 4e?

EVERY SINGLE TIME any conversation about Tieflings comes up, we have to listen to the same tired old song and dance. You don't like 5e tielflings. Fantastic. No problems. There's NOTHING forcing you to play them. Not a single damn thing. Instead we have to listen to warmed over edition war garbage, yet again, for the TEN THOUSANTH time, because, well, we have to make sure that every one knows that the new tieflings suck and everything old was good.
I never said I dont like 5e Tieflings... just the ones with the 4e appearance and backstory. But I get it... you dont like anything Planescape or Planescape related... including Planescape grognards :p
 

doctorbadwolf

Explorer
How about you give us a break... we know you have a personal hate on for all things Planescape...

But were is anyone trying to force anything... it's a thread about tieflings and opinions on which ones various posters liked were given. This tangent/ argument only started because someone tried to use fan art as a basis of proof/ to insinuate that the majority (Instead of just themselves) preferred the 4e/5e phb tieflings.
You've invented that insinuation.
 

cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
I really need to continue with my 2e variable tiefling appearance and abilities charts, if nothing else just for the fun of it.

Before I posted this, I looked at the google sheet I've made for tieflings and realised I've also done a bit of work on teifling bloodlines based on demons as well as a random heritage chart which I don't recall what that was for, maybe just a random table to pick which type you are. I really need to include better notes when I'm making things, at least I didn't go and recreate the work I've already done.

Another sheet was for generic tieflings, one which is descended from devils, and one which is descended from demons (which thinking about it, maybe I should check the UA with demon tieflings).
 

Imaro

Adventurer
You've invented that insinuation.
Yep just like 4e didn't change the cosmology of other D&D settings when it introduced the World Axis...

Sure, but it hardly erases how it seems that players in 5e mostly enjoy the version that essentially carried over from 4e. Did they offer variants later? Sure. But the fanart and current version seems strongly influenced and increasingly locked into the 4e-brand tiefling, much in the same manner that kobolds began moving towards being mini-dragons with 3e. These things happen as the game evolves.
Is this a statement about what players of 5e prefer... is fan art being used as support for said statement??
 

cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
Sometimes I do wonder (after reading this thread) just what tiefling players do prefer. Clearly a large part of it is likely based of when they started DnD. Players of 4e or 5e might not know any different because they haven't thought to look. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if even players that didn't come across earlier edition tieflings create characters using artwork found online. Like, how many pick tiefling and base their look off some Blizzard fan art of a draenai? I wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few of them.
 

Maxperson

Orcus on an on Day
This isn't about my dislike for Planescape. This is about my dislike of Planescape grognards constandly bitching and whining about how WotC just doesn't get tieflings. Hrm, tieflings have gone from a tiny niche race that only a small handful of tables ever actually saw to one of the most popular races in the game. Yeah, I guess WotC has no idea what they are doing and everyone else is just completely out of touch.
They became popular because they were included in the FR book, which gave them a lot more exposure, and then in 4e as a main race. They did not become popular because of the relatively minor changes made to them.

EVERY SINGLE TIME any conversation about Tieflings comes up, we have to listen to the same tired old song and dance. You don't like 5e tielflings. Fantastic. No problems. There's NOTHING forcing you to play them. Not a single damn thing. Instead we have to listen to warmed over edition war garbage, yet again, for the TEN THOUSANTH time, because, well, we have to make sure that every one knows that the new tieflings suck and everything old was good.
Since almost every complaint is just a rehash for the umpteenth time, I expect you'll remember this and not post any more complaints. It's not like you haven't done the same thing for your pet peeves.
 

doctorbadwolf

Explorer
Yep just like 4e didn't change the cosmology of other D&D settings when it introduced the World Axis...
If you’re referencing what I think, that’s a really sad straw man attempt connected to a different thread that has no relevance to this one.
 

Hussar

Legend
Nope its art expressing a dislike for something or is that not allowed now??
/snip
"I'm with stupid" and a picture of a 4e tiefling that looks like it's just whaled a bag full of weed is "expressing a dislike"?

Your protestations would ring a lot less hollow if you actually made even the slightest effort to be objective. But, the fact that not only does that image get a pass, but, it actually gets approved by you pretty much says it all. I mean, seriously, if you replaced that 4e tiefling with some sad, fat neckbeard in a I Heart Gygax t-shirt, you'd blow a gasket about how insulting that is. But, this? Oh, this is just "expressing a dislike".

Just sad.

But, yeah, [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION], you're 100% right. The best way to deal with this sort of thing is just to refuse to respond to it.
 
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