Gradine
🏳️⚧️ (she/her) 🇵🇸
Venture Bros. gives us a... well a version of this, anyway. At least of an amoral Reed. The other three members of the "team" in this case though... they weren't quite so lucky.....
....isn't that also Kang?
The Fantastic Four: First Steps - Official Teaser Trailer (2025)
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Keaton is a really good actor and fine for Bats under the cowl. Physically, I don't think that he makes a good Bruce Wayne. That stated, I still prefer the two movies with him to the Nolan movies with Bale (which themselves are far better then the Batman movies with Van Kilmer or Clooney).
Then again, I am someone who thinks Affleck made a good Daredevil* despite having a lousy script and/or edited theatrical version and his Bruce Wayne/Batman in Justice League is my favorite live action Batman/Bruce Wayne.
*Charlie Cox is still a better Daredevil/Matt Murdoch!
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RangerWickett
Legend
My answer? I think diverse representation matters more than fidelity to unimportant elements of source material.
The MCU leads have been more white, male, and American than the per capita rate of that group among the human race. Yeah, the films are adaptations of comics that were often made by white dudes from New York, but the narrative resonance of the characters' struggles is, most of the time, not really linked to their sex, race, or nation of origin.
Doctor Strange could have been British. His defining character trait is hubris and perfectionism.
Reed Richards could be Chilean.
Hawkeye could have been any race or sex, because as far as the MCU is concerned, his defining traits are that he's humble and good at connecting with normal people while working on a team full of demigods.
Now, Captain America being a reflection of America, trying to be an earnest representation of its stated values while being dubious of all the ways our leadership has been hypocritical? Having that be a white man is meaningful, because when Steve puts principles over 'playing by the rules,' he holds a mirror up to a LOT of white male Americans who could benefit from a lesson about respecting those who have less power than you and helping them become strong too.
And Tony as a repentant part of the military industrial complex? Again, solid white dude material.
Natasha's film interrogated how society objectifies women and tries to take away their free will and control their bodies. You could do a similar story that looks at comparable patterns involving toxic masculinity, but the patterns of control would be different. Natasha could have been non-white, but you gain a bit by couching her origin in a nation often portrayed as hostile, to fit in with Cap as a person who cares more about doing the right thing than about tribal loyalty.
I never watched the MCU Hulk movie, so I don't know whether it delved into how society can teach men to respond with anger. Theoretically you could have told that story with a Banner who isn't white, which honestly might have been interesting to examine how society responds differently to the emotions of black men versus white men.
Later on, Peter Quill is a kid stolen away who misses Earth and makes its pop culture his identity, but he has empathy for other people who have lost their homes and families. That could fit pretty much any race or sex. I mean, a person of either sex can attempt pelvic sorcery.
Spidey doesn't need to be a white guy. That said, when they made a non-white Spidey, his specific ethnic origin and the expectations placed on him because of it help motivate his character. I've enjoyed all the Spidey movies well enough, but Into the Spider-Verse absolutely was the most compelling, because the character had the most going on.
Anyway, I'm rambling.
They're making a film series that will be viewed by people around the world. Half of them are women. If you can get the same emotional resonance out of a character's narrative and provide more representation to appeal to a broader audience, I think that's good business sense, not to mention just ethically decent.
Enevhar Aldarion
Hero
Nice to see we are getting a live-action version of The Incredibles universe.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
I think we're miscommunicating here.
There are two Marvel Comics characters:
1) A male Surfer, with his own backstory
2) A female Surfer, with her own backstory
The MCU movie is using the female Surfer.
The argument being made here is that the female Surfer, who already exists in the comics, should have her backstory REPLACED with the male Surfer's backstory.
Female Surfer Background: She's Empress of her planet (a female leader of her entire world). Her father had committed suicide. She's tied to Doctor Doom on earth, who is part of this movie as well. She returns back to her world after Galactus destroys the surface of the planet but not it's people and uses her power to restore life to her home planet, saving everyone. She then breaks off her engagement to the Male surfer due to her responsibilities of leading her people. It's unclear when in the MCU she'd get her powers, but in Earth X it's Galactus who gives her the Surfer powers instead of the Male Surfer.
Ditching that backstory to instead use the male Surfer backstory does not seem to serve a diverse representation better than using the female backstory. That's directly saying the female Surfer's backstory is less worthy of being told than the male Surfer's backstory (which, below, you repeat - so it seems you genuinely think this). Which is why I asked why that was compelling. And you just...repeated it was to be diverse.
Why the heck is the female character's backstory lessor in your mind than the male characters backstory?
How is the backstory of the female Surfer unimportant?
Why do you think the MALE backstory provides better "emotional resonance out of the character" than the FEMALE backstory?
You appear to be the second person simply asserting the male backstory is somehow superior to the female backstory. And when directly asked why you just repeat that it simply is superior without any explanation as to why that might be in your mind.
I'm giving an opportunity to explain why people think that. Because, without further explanation, the words you guys are using can look like you want the character to be female FOR THE VISUAL APPEAL (the "more compelling" without further explanation and, referenced earlier by Umbran, that the movie would otherwise "be a a sausage-fest"), as if you think it's diverse to "see some women" in the movie (presumably attractive women give Umbran's description) but you don't actually care if the character HAS THE FEMALE-DRIVEN STORY BEHIND IT, but only care that the character LOOKS female (presumably hot).
Which isn't diversity to me so much as it's feeding the male gaze and desire for the movie to not be a sausage-fest, as long as it has the male's story behind it. I am going to assume it's not that, but right now the words both you and Umbran chose to describe your motives can look that way. Which is why I keep offering the opportunity to explain why you guys both seem to think the female storyline is lessor to the male storyline for...reasons?
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RangerWickett
Legend
This does not bother me, but to be fair, I've never touched a Fantastic Four comic nor seen any of the movies.
Apparently the Silver Surfer is important. I frankly think the whole premise of a giant dude who eats planets who has a shiny guy as his herald or whatever sounds pretty silly, and adding space empires on top of it doesn't make me compelled. The backstory you described sounds too complicated to fit into this movie, so if they tried to use it they wouldn't end up making the movie, so it feels like a Catch 22 to be upset about the change.
I literally don't know either storyline. That's not part of my calculus.
I'm not yearning for a big tiddy silver girlfriend, Mark. My opinion is just that Marvel should try to have more female characters on screen, because, y'know, women exist.
It is not vital to me that this character be a woman, and it wouldn't be enough to make me rage and cancel the movie if the silver surfer had a dong (which . . . I don't think he does, right?). I'm just inclined to assume most people who get bothered by gender swapping characters are, y'know, being misogynistic, and they should stop being bothered by women having prominent roles in things.
I could talk more about why I think it's valuable to have representation, but Eric's Grandma has a no politics rule.
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
correct; I don't think any version of the Surfer pulls a Doctor Manhattan
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
I’m reading this and I’m like, you wanna see the MCU deviating from the original comic material? Look no farther than Hawkeye. He may be humble, good at connecting in the MCU. But in the original material he’s often brash, obnoxious, and quarrelsome. His heart’s in the right place, but his foot’s in his mouth. Often.
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