So, what you're saying is that fighters are 'most likely' bad at stealth so can't contribute in scouting and similar aspects of exploration requiring good DEX?
No. That’s what you’ve inferred from what I’ve said. I think STR edges out DEX for Fighters overall. I’ve seen DEX Fighters, and it’s a viable build, but I’d say STR is probably a bitbetter choice all around.
Fighters can go STR or DEX in 5e - so can rangers (rogues, barbarians, and paladins, for instance, not s'much) - it's a bit of versatility the 5e fighter finally got without undue strings (feat taxes) attached. It's nice. But, it's at-chargen versatility, and it goes one way or the other for any given fighter.
Is there any other class that has a choice of primary stat? Isn’t that a point in favor of the Fighter when it comes to something they have that other classes don’t?
Also, why can’t a Fighter be good at both? Sure, one will be better, but those extra ASIs are available. DEX is never a bad stat to improve, even for a STR Fighter.
And when those choices can be made, and whether they exclude other choices. At chargen, if you're gong to use weapons, you generally make a STR or DEX choice. If you went with DEX you're probably not going to play a paladin or barbarian. If you go with STR, it's probably not a rogue nor an archer of any kind. So, sure, the STR fighter is probably going to be stronger than the rogue and the DEX fighter stealthier than the Paladin or even lighter-armored Barbarian.
I think most folks would have likely chosen their class before assigning their stats. But I think a big part of that decision may depend on the other players’ choices for class.
The supposition, 'well, a fighter can sneak better than the paladin/barb because he's more likely to have high DEX (since the other classes are more deeply committed to STR),' is just as true as a fighter likely being stronger than the rogue or ranger... but no fighter is both those things. And, the DEX fighter is unlikely to be as stealthy as the rogue (a prime thing for the rogue to use Expertise in), nor the STR fighter stronger than the raging barbarian.
Well, if we’re talking about Exploration and Social Interaction, the Barbarian should likely not be raging since that relies on being in combat. So a Fighter need not be stronger than a raging barbarian.
But again, we’re back to the Fighter needing to be BEST at something like Stealth in order to contribute. As if the Rogue will always sneak off alone without ever bringing anyone with him. A DEX Fighter with a Criminal background is a solid partner for a Rogue.
We’re back to “the Fighter’s not the best” but there are actually few party needs where there’s one class that’s clearly best, where another class can’t achieve the same high level of skill.
Ah, that makes more sense.
I said raft rather than boat because I figured they'd be the kind of thing to get improvised in the exploration pillar, when there's more time for finding such solutions than when, say, swimming a moat in the midst of battle.
I’m just thinking of when these kinds of Athletics checks tend to come up outside of combat.
And also wearing heavy armor...
Nod. That gets into what we're comparing, IMHO, it should be comparing two characters trying to be good at the same thing: Do we want the DEX fighter, the ranger or the rogue as our party scout? Do we want the STR fighter or the Barbarian kicking in doors & carrying stuff for us?
Well I personally don’t think it’s terrible to have two party members that are both good at something. I’m all for trying to get as many needs covered as possible, but having some overlap isn’t unwanted.
But this also depends on what other classes are in the party. If you have a 4 or 5 member party, then there’s a good chance the Fighter can shore up a shortcoming of the party with the right Feat or ASI choices.
The impression I get is that you're on the point about the fighter contributing somewhere that everyone else happens to have neglected. In the party with STR in the 8-12 range, the STR fighter is /the/ lift'n & break'n stuff guy. In the party with DEX in the 10-14 range, the DEX fighter is the stealthy one. In the party with otherwise universally dumped CHA, the Noble Fighter with 14 CHA is the face.
Yes, that’s a big part of what I’m saying. The Fighter simply has more opportunity to diversify with Feats/ASIs than other classes.
Yes, the one-eyed fighter in the land of the blind is king. So is the two-eyed anything else.
Meh, I don’t tend to think of a party that doesn’t have every class represented...or more realistically, that doesn’t have every need addressed....as the “land of the blind”.